Liz Nable 0:00
If there was ever an episode designed to give the most value to someone building a business or a brand and looking to get themselves some free media and PR, then this is it. Bryce Corbett has pretty much worked in and on every major media medium in Australia and plenty overseas as well. He's worked across 24 hour news, financial news, print features, women's magazines, gossip columns, long format news and current affairs programmes. He's worked as a journalist and producer and executive editor in PR crisis communications for little businesses and huge corporations. He's written four best selling books, including ghost writing, famous Australians, Rosie Batty and Turia Pitt's biographies. He's received 1000s of media pitches across his career, and admits at some points had so many pitches in his inbox each day, he had to delete most of them. He's also crossed to the dark side a couple of times and pitch stories from the PR side. So if there was ever anyone whose advice you should listen to about pitching to the media, it's my guest tonight, Bryce Colbert, from Sydney, London, Paris, and now Brisbane. Bryce knows the language of the media, and has an intricate and in depth knowledge about how it works. He can pick a great story a mile away, and knows exactly how to build the right relationships and how not to burn them. Now Bryce is in startup land, working on one of the most successful Australian kids podcasts in the country squizz kids, and doing a pretty fabulous job, I might add. This is an episode you're going to want to listen to over and over to squeeze every last morsel of information to put into practice. So he habit how to pitch the media top tips from the inside with my smart savvy and very self deprecating friend, Bryce Corbett. Hello, I'm Liz, naval, and you're listening to enable my business, the podcast. When I first started in small business almost 10 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting into. You see, my background was in the media. I had spent 15 years as a television news journalist and reporter working at several major networks in Australia. And then as a freelancer in the US and around the world. I spent years dividing my time between working long shifts on a news desk, and travelling the world chasing stories. It was unpredictable and exciting. Until it wasn't anymore. I decided I wanted a life where I was in charge of what happened next. And where I was working to build my own empire, not someone else's. I also never wanted to work a midnight you shift again. And now I don't have to. There was a lot I had to learn about running my own business. But one thing I already had in the bag was how to get media coverage and free PR. I knew what the media wanted. I knew the secret formula for what made news and I knew how to leverage those organisations to build my business, get more exposure, and ultimately make more sales. During my decade of building my business, I have managed to get featured in almost every major news outlet in the country. I've been interviewed on television countless times, had personal profiles written up in women's magazines, done point of view pieces for large newspapers, and be listed in top 100 List women in business and in my industry. And I've never spent a single cent on PR. I took that knowledge for granted, until it dawned on me one day that I could teach what I knew to other businesses, let them in on the secret. And they too could build their businesses, leveraging the media and gaining free PR. They could use my insights in the industry and my behind the scenes experience and take their business from Best Kept Secret to well known brand simply by following my formula. Welcome to enable my business, the podcast. Thanks so much, Bryce, for joining us today. It's a pleasure to have you on the show.
Bryce Corbett 4:05
My pleasure, great to be here.
Liz Nable 4:06
It's such a perfect fit for you to be in this first season of the podcast because you have had such a diverse range of experience in the media. And I'm about to get you to tell me what that experience is. But I know you've been pretty much in every medium in every kind of media. So you are the perfect guest for me to talk to today.
Bryce Corbett 4:27
Yeah, I don't know sometimes I love that I was I was having a chat with somebody the other day, a new client and they was just asking me to explain who I was and what my background was and the experience that I had had. And at the end of it, I'd run a little off and at the end of it they were like so you like seventy? No, no, I just think maybe I have attention deficit disorder when it comes to jobs. Restlessness agenda.
Liz Nable 4:51
Yeah, I think most journals do right. That's why they do we do what
Bryce Corbett 4:55
we do. Possibly. Yeah, possibly.
Liz Nable 4:58
So if I may ask you you to indulge and go back to the beginning and tell us a little bit more about where you started and where you how you came to be where you are now. Yeah, absolutely.
Bryce Corbett 5:07
Um, so I did a communications degree at UTS in Sydney, and with a major in journalism, which is something I always knew that I'd wanted to get into. And at that time, because I am that ancient, there were only very few places that were doing the traditional entry into journalism, which at that point was become a copy person, which is like, a kind of an office dog's body from which they chose people who would become cadets. And one of those places was News Limited at the time now called News Corp. and, and at that, it was what it was one of the things you have to sit and examine there's massive hall full of people desperate to become an office dog's body and get paid absolutely nothing to be screamed at, by cranky old journalists. And I was offered one of those positions and was a coffee person for a year. And then I was I was chosen to become a cadet at The Daily Telegraph newspaper, in Sydney. And yeah, so that's began six years working at the telly, where I did all sorts of stuff as you do when you're a cadet. And then they put me in as the, as a gossip columnist on a on a page, which was called Page 13. At the time, which is so yeah, it was actually a lot of fun. And it's now I think it's now sitting in confidential as well, it's morphed into. And that was an incredible experience. And at the time, you know, I think I'd probably come out of university thinking, I've got to go, you know, be a Woodward and Bernstein and bring down a government and, and when they said to me wants you to do the gossip column, I was like, well, that's not serious. And what am I going to learn doing that. And within about a year, I've come to understand that I was always going to learn more in that job in a faster period, than perhaps doing anything else on the newspaper, because it was baptism by fire. So I worked at the telly. And then, and then I was sent to London where I worked as a News Corp sent me across to London, and I worked at the times for a stint. And, and then I was, and then I was joined Sky News in London. So again, part of the News Corp family, and I was working there is a TV producer. So I so after about, I've done six or seven years in papers, I was keen to try out London and Clint keen to try outs TV production. So I worked at Sky News in London for just under two years, and then moved to Paris as you do. And that was where I took a took, took, again, a bit of a took off on a bit of a tangent, I took on the job of the director of communications for the International Chamber of Commerce. So they were a the world business organisation is how they otherwise described themselves. They were very heavily involved with the United Nations and were whenever the private sector so businesses generally wanted to insert themselves into being united nations proceedings. The ICC was the vehicle by which they did that. So I was living in Paris as a as a young man with a great job that flew all over the world to all these great United Nations meetings. And
Liz Nable 8:29
I thought that sounds amazing. Yeah, it
Bryce Corbett 8:32
was it was it was great. It was really good. I mean, you know, it was it's interesting, I think, for any journalist to go from a newsroom environment, and then into PR, which is what this essentially was, the pace suddenly drops off completely, you're just so used to working at such a cracking pace. And whenever you go into any organisation, be it you know, something like the ICC, or even a corporate things just move so much more slowly and everything. Everything's more ponderous. You know, when you're in a newsroom and decision items, snap decisions, change, and you just deadlines, deadlines, yeah, right. And you just roll with it. And so adjusting to that slower pace was something of a challenge and also just adjusting to the idea that you needed 25 people to sign off on a simple press release. Sounds a bit tedious. But yeah, the international travel and the fact that was based in Paris did help to offset that somewhat. And I thought I'd stay in Paris for a year turned into 10. So that was living and working in Paris. And which is when I obviously met my my, my wife and fellow Ozzy in Paris, and we had a couple of kids there and decided we probably should hit back to Australia. And I took a job at the Women's weekly. So I made mine had been the night editor at the Australian and then I think the deputy editor of the Sunday Telly I fell in the cave. We've known each other for many, many, many years. She just taken the job as the editor in chief of the women's weekly. And she knew I was thinking about coming back to Australia and said, Hey, how about it? Why don't you come and join me? So I went, Yeah, and that was an incredible experience to again, you know, completely unexpected. I learned a lot working in magazines that that I hadn't picked up in papers, for example, really honed, I guess, my writing. And that was around that time that I wrote Rosie batteas book and Tirpitz book. And of course, I had two books published when I was in Paris to so managed to continue that little sideline, author thing going on. So women's weekly was six years, and from the weekly I went to the Australian Financial Review, because that segue makes perfect. Oh, I was gonna
Liz Nable 10:56
say, just her total random change of pace. Women's weekly to the financial.
Bryce Corbett 11:02
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the weekly was amazing to be good at what
Liz Nable 11:05
you did, though, to make that transition?
Bryce Corbett 11:09
Well, I suppose you have to ask the people I worked with. Yeah, I mean, it was, I mean, it doesn't look like an obvious transition on paper. But, you know, the, the weekly was the biggest steel is, as far as I'm aware, the biggest selling magazine in the country, like it was a, you know, it's a big deal with a big audience and a massive church, that you have to service in terms of readership. And then the Finn review was I worked on the gossip column on the fin review. So it was a kind of a female, in a way can sort of bit of full circle. That column is called rear window. helmed by Joe Aston, who had the pleasure of working with and we had some fun for two years. And it was this column that I would always describe as the column that everybody loves to read. As long as they're not in it. Yeah,
Liz Nable 12:04
it was sad.
Bryce Corbett 12:07
Um, and, again, back in the newsroom environment, and it was, you know, it's so fast paced. And everybody, yeah, and it but every single day, you've got to feel a column. And it's got to be a column that's filled with something that's new and interesting. And yeah, it was. It was it was it was intense. From the AFR, I spent two years doing that. And then I had an opportunity to join 60 minutes as a producer. So I moved across back into television, and worked at 60 minutes or two years. Of course, that was the whole 60 minutes experience, as you'd expect. Yeah. Yeah. Which was amazing and fantastic people to work with, and lots of travel. Yeah, there was there was lots of travel probably, ultimately, more travelled, and I was able to keep up with my household was able to obtain. And, you know, it became apparent that you kind of, I quite liked my wife, as it turned out, my wife, my children, and I was quite keen to maintain my marriage. So something had to give So
Liz Nable 13:21
wow, yeah, I think that, you know, you're travelling three quarters of the year, it's probably pretty intense on anyone.
Bryce Corbett 13:27
Yeah, yeah. And 60. You know, again, it's one of those places where you the drop of a hat, they'll send you you know, we'll say, grab your passport, go to the airport, we need you in. wherever needed. I spent, like, I remember off the top of my head a week in Minneapolis, you know, chasing down a story. And that's fantastic. And it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful experience to have as a journey. But you have to weigh it up with the other things in your life, which I did. And then I moved from 60 back into into corporate PR here in Australia, and began working with domestic which is a boutique comms agency. And it's, you know, we work in crisis comms and strategy and, and straight out PR for companies. And that's where I have been working, I guess, pretty much ever since. And most recently, I've been working on squizz kids, the daily news podcast for kids, which was something that I created two years ago with Claire Kimball, founder of the squits. And I've recently just become full time working on that. So looking to develop a new and exciting podcast slash digital. Wow. Yeah,
Liz Nable 14:51
they're pretty boring career trajectory. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you've worked at every major like that you You have pretty much ticked off all the boxes in terms of what you know when you as a former journalist myself, if you look up towards people you admire, you're like 60 minutes is a pretty dream job. I know that it's you know, obviously, once you get in there, it's probably a different story because it's super full on working in Paris working in crisis communications, working for the women's week, we'd like you've covered it all. You've taken two boxes. There's nothing left. And I think you now in podcasts, which is like the new way to communicate, I think, and it's obviously doing really, really well, the squares kids.
Bryce Corbett 15:31
Yeah, there it is, yeah, it's gone from strength to strength. And their response has just been phenomenal. And it is, it's a really exciting, exciting space to be in right now. Because as you know, like the podcasting world has just exploded, and dry. And it's interesting from a business point of view, because part of my job now is to work out, you know, how how the content side of things, you've kind of got covered, we know content, that's okay. And we created something that's resonating, we just need to work out. Now. That tricky commercialization part, which we're not even halfway through,
Liz Nable 16:01
because it's not cheap to live these days, you need money, which is why you are the perfect guest for this show. Because as you know, this is sort of aimed at small business owners, a lot of female small business owners who might not have the budget or the experience to you know, hire a PR company, they don't, that's just kind of not even on the table, sort of teaching them a bit about how to tell their own story, how to pitch to the media, you know, what works, what someone like you is looking for, and you've obviously worked on both sides of the industry. So being pitched to, and then working in communications and corporate affairs, and that sort of thing. So I mean, you've obviously been pitched a million stories in your life, like, tell me a bit about what you've seen, like, what are the worst things you've seen? And what are you looking for when someone catches you an ID
Bryce Corbett 16:57
merely you're looking for someone who is not wasting your time. And what I mean by that is that they, they've taken the time to understand the product, your product. So if I, for example, let's say the let's take the women's weekly as an example, where I was Chief of Staff, and then executive editor for six years, people would come to me with a pitch, and I would look at it and think Have you read the magazine? Yeah. Have you even have you even looked at what we do? And and it would be the same at the AFR, you know, that people would come to me with a pitch for something or other? And I'd be like, it's like, do you really actually do you read the column? Because there's nothing worse than I mean, and that will be relegated immediately to the band? Because you're just saying, like, you haven't done your homework?
Liz Nable 17:44
No, you haven't unless you receive a pitch like that, you're not going to probably read the next email you get from that person, right? Anyways.
Bryce Corbett 17:52
No, absolutely. And that would, that brings me quite neatly, to you know, it's it's relationships. Largely, it's about if you're, if you want any hope of anything landing, you know, when when I used to work at the weekly or the AFR, or even back at The Daily Telegraph, you know, I would, you would, you would receive so many emails at any given day that you don't even look at your email box. Or if you do you skim it, and if you if you if you open one or two emails out of, you know, the 300 or so you get on any given day, then then that's, that's remarkable. So it would stand
Liz Nable 18:34
out to you in a full inbox like that, what would make you well, the first
Bryce Corbett 18:39
thing is the name of the person that it's coming from and whether or not they're they've they've proven themselves to be a trusted source of information, or a good source of stories, you know, any, in any of these things, it's about relationship building. And it's about making. And because I've worked on the PR side of things I understand it's about making yourself useful to journalists. And making yourself useful is not just constantly emailing them and throwing them ideas that are completely left to centre, and they don't really have any bearing or any relevance of the publication they're working on you. You will always you will always, obviously tend to those stories and pitches which you're you can look at and go Well, they've either read what we did last month or last week or yesterday, and seen an opportunity to insert themselves into an existing agenda than we clearly have going on here or an existing story. Or they have demonstrably a really good new sense and they've taken on whatever it is that they're trying to sell. And, and put it through the prism of an existing news story or an existing issue, whatever it may be. Because they've gone there because they understand that it's It's going to always gonna be far more effective if you insert yourself into an existing media narrative, or an existing issue, rather than try to drag the media over to whatever it is that you want them to look at, or want them to think about or want them. And that requires flexibility. You know, I mean, I think that's sometimes described as newsjacking, this idea that you, you see what's in the news. And you work out what it is that you're doing, or that you're saying or that you, whatever it is that your business operates, and work out how you could fit your business into that existing narrative, that's always going to be much more successful.
Liz Nable 20:39
Can you give me any examples. So I'm putting you on the spot here off the top of your head of in any of those sort of positions where someone's kind of successfully news jacked and pitched you a story that weaves into the current news of the day? Ah.
Bryce Corbett 20:59
I can't give a specific example where I've been pitched to, but I know as a pitcher that a large part of last year. I mean, there was a period last year when all anybody was ever going to publish anything about it was as if it had something to do with COVID. Yeah. And it needed to either it needed to either progress the COVID story or progress the story of the implications of COVID or, you know, the like, all media newsrooms, because whatever business that is that you're in, you will have some sort of a unique insight or perspective, hopefully, on whatever it is that part of business that you're doing, if you're able to say, Okay, what the newsrooms are really interested in right now is what what impact COVID is having on X industry or X? Sector? Yeah, then that is going to have a greatest chance of success landing, then if you just go in with something which is, which exists in a kind of splendid isolation from what's going on in the news agenda? Yeah, absolutely. And that goes back to what I was talking before about building relationships, because then you prove, you know, then you've proven to a newsroom or a journalist or whomever it is that you're dealing with that you can be useful to them. Because what you have to understand, you know, lives in a newsroom, any given day, these journalists will be asked to become instant experts on on many different subjects. And so they cannot possibly know everything about everything. So they rely upon people. And they rely on their network of contacts to get speed on every single day. So establish yourself as one of those reliable contacts. Then, and you deliver for them. And this is the other crucial pathway can't be you can't set yourself up and saying, Yeah, I'm here for you. And I'll then I'll make your life easier. But then when push comes to shove, and they say, All right, I need a case study. All right, what do you have? Or can you give me a comment on and you go, I'm gonna need 48 hours to just double check with the CEO. And just make sure that the corporates and the lawyers and everyone has signed off, that's not going to cut it for late, you've missed the opportunity, you don't have the luxury of setting the timetable, as well as setting the agenda, like you need to, you need to accept that, that the news agenda, if you want to be a part of it, you gotta you got to play by its rules.
Liz Nable 23:32
And thinking like a journalist, you know, I'm just thinking of an example off the top of my head. So for example, real estate, obviously a big has had a knock on effect from COVID. So if you're a real estate agent, and you're pitching your experience, from what you can see on the ground, to the AFR, for example, one one aspect, you're their eyes and ears, create this relationship with this journalist, and he may not mention you for three weeks or months or whatever. And then all of a sudden, when that opportunity to profile someone or to get a comment, or you're the person that they're going to reach out
Bryce Corbett 24:05
to, yeah, and the more useful you you make yourself, the more likely they are to give you a leg up and to to help you back in return, you know, it's quid pro quo. If you've helped them out, then they're they'll they'll be more inclined to help you out should you require in a, you know, or when it comes time and they know that it's, you know, they've got they've got a story they've got to produce and they need a quote from someone or a photograph with someone. And they know that it'll be good profile for your business. If they give you that opportunity, then they'll come to you and it's starts to become self fulfilling.
Liz Nable 24:48
Yeah. So obviously, the pitch when you're pitching to television is going to be different to the women's weekly or the AFR. How important is it for someone who is pitching for In the small business, to be ready with pitchers, you know, probate case studies
Bryce Corbett 25:05
and vital. And it's been, and I would argue it is it is more important today than it was even a year ago. Newsrooms are having to produce more material on a daily basis than ever before. Because they're servicing the, you know, the online and, and in the case of newspapers, they've got the print, and they've got the online and in the case of television, they've got the, you know, they got the nightly news, but then they've also got the online and it's, it's 24/7, that they're hungry for content. Clever operators will meet them halfway in the provision of that content. But you've got to be smart about how you do it, like you don't run out and get some corporate video shot that you know, is just not going to cut it, because it's either to PR E and to corporate and to self serving.
Liz Nable 26:05
Yeah, it's not an ad that. Yeah, right.
Bryce Corbett 26:06
Yeah. I mean, if you want if you want an advertisement, and this is true of anything, you know, if you if you want an advert, bring the advertising department, yeah. Or buy a newspaper, you know, or buy a TV station, like, if that's what you want, then that's your option, but otherwise be prepared to play by their
Liz Nable 26:26
rules. Yeah. And I think what I teach in my master classes is that your business is the side story, you'll you're not the focus, it's you're getting, you know, might get a mention, or you might be used as an industry expert for comment or whatever. But it's not an open advertisement for you to push, you know, sales or whatever. Absolutely, to be really careful when you're creating those relationships with journalists that you're not doing that, because it's not a direct sell.
Bryce Corbett 26:53
No, no, absolutely. And this and that. And I also understand that it's a long play, it's a long term play. And along the way, there might be bumps in the road. And there might be, there might be stuff that's published or broadcast about then that in an ideal world hadn't been or wasn't on there, perhaps the story didn't quite work out in the way they thought it was going to. I mean, there's no point being petulant about it, no, well, I'm never doing that again, or I'm never dealing with them again, or anything like that. It's, it's you have to you have to be prepared to roll with the punches. And, and, and you have to look at it as as a long play, and just go, because the other thing is do you know, I mean, you've worked in newsrooms lives, you know, like, occasionally a journalist with the best of intentions, we'll see you publish a story in the paper, the next day or or pack is going to air that night on on TV and go, and I got edited, you know, yeah, went through, went through the went through the factory, and it came out then and look at your, your quote, dropped out, or they've used something in a different context to how you would or they've put a headline on it that I don't have control over. Now, do you waste the opportunity to have a relationship with that journalist? For the sake of a bad headline, or for the sake of a caption that you don't like? No, it's ridiculous. Of course, you died? Well, the smart.
Liz Nable 28:20
No, no, that was actually gonna be my next question to you. Which you've sort of already answered. But you know, you don't necessarily have control of the outcome. You don't get to proofread an article before it goes to print. Absolutely not. And that was, and that's no matter how cooperative you've been?
Bryce Corbett 28:35
No, absolutely. Nobody. I mean, and I am. And I will never ask that. And my response to a client who says to me, Well, we have an opportunity to proofread it is, as I was saying, before, it's like, unless you want to buy that newspaper, or TV station, or that radio station or that online, you know, unless you like, I'm not even going to ask because that is an insult to, to the journalist in question. Having said that, I mean, lots of journals will, the good ones will will fact check, and I'll and they'll come back. And they say, I just want to make sure I've understood and can you just and that is, you know, by all means, you know, that's an opportunity for you to and you should always offer that when you if you want me to have a look at, you know, what's your quoting? Or if you want me to have a look at please don't hesitate to give me a call, because a lot of journalists will take up that opportunity. And that's your opportunity to get a bit of a sense of what it is they've written or what it is they've taken from the conversation they've had with you went and correct it, but you shouldn't expect it as a given. You will never ever, not from any journalists worth their salt will you give be given the opportunity to proofread an article and given the right to edit it before it goes to prints? That's just that's advertising.
Liz Nable 29:48
Yeah, yeah. And that's what we've preserved independent journalism. Right. It's, you know, it's the media it's not an editorial
Bryce Corbett 29:56
and looking into ask for it. Just shows naivety on your part, and and I think probably will damage your credibility with that journalist.
Liz Nable 30:07
Absolutely. That sort of brings us back to what you're looking for an immediate pitch. But would you agree that if you're more prepared, if you understand what makes a good story, you, I guess, in a roundabout kind of way, we'll have more of control over what the outcome is. Because you're, you understand where the story is, and you will probably have a good gauge of what the outcome would be. If you are pitching the right story with the right news angle.
Bryce Corbett 30:34
Yeah, absolutely. No, absolutely. 100%. Yeah. And look, and that's a difficult and I think that's something that you don't, when you work in a newsroom for the majority of your life, you, you don't really understand that you You're, you're you're accumulating wisdom that is eventually going to be of some use to someone, one of the one of the, you know, a good a good, good PR person will be able to plot the trajectory trajectory of a story, you know, and they will be able to plot out. If we stick something, if we put something here. That will be that will be you know, if we put something in the morning papers that will be read by the breakfast breakfast, because they'll have the the breakfast radio announcers will read it, and then it'll become a thing there. And that'll potentially get picked up potentially by TVs, you know, and then that will take a life. And then we'll have what we will probably see happen then is that this commentator will come in, and then we'll get the opposing view coming from here. And so really smart PR person is not just doing story one, but they're doing story two, and then leapfrogging ahead and going and so when that happens, then we'll have Option A and Option B ready to go. Yeah,
Liz Nable 31:49
because the story does take, you know, particularly something, I guess, controversial, irrelevant to the news of the day, you know, does kind of take on a life of its own, doesn't it?
Bryce Corbett 31:59
Yeah, sorry, just dropped out.
Liz Nable 32:01
I was gonna say, if the story is, you know, relevant to the news of the day, it's a good enough story, it will take on a life of its own.
Bryce Corbett 32:10
Yeah, absolutely. It will. And, and this is paid for that. Yeah. And there's a certain amount of which you can predict where it will go. It's not an exact science.
Liz Nable 32:22
You can't predict it these days. Either. Can you?
Bryce Corbett 32:24
Absolutely cannot. No, you can't. And there have been so many things that have changed even since I was a baby journey, that it's all a crapshoot. But you can go into it with a, you know, with a greater chance of success. With the right. armoury?
Liz Nable 32:42
How relevant is the media still today, obviously, you know, social media, a lot of businesses like talking with my small business owners head on, again. You know, obviously, we do a lot of work these days in digital marketing and managing our social media profiles. And that definitely has its place. But I've had some feedback from people who like, well, what difference does it make if I'm in the media, like, why is it helpful to me? Because I can just tell my own story on socials.
Bryce Corbett 33:08
Yeah, you can. But how much credibility does it have? Is the question I would ask. And, and I think there's definitely a place for digital and your socials. And it's a very important place and a very important part of your of your marketing and your brand building, without a shadow of a doubt. But no one is going, like the credibility, what what you're getting from being placed in the more traditional media is the sort of credibility that money can't buy. And is, it's, and you also, I think, have to think about it in terms of, you know, if if you if you post on LinkedIn, some amazing achievement that you think you've had, that's well and good, but for the most part, people just go well, that's pretty self serving. If an outfit like the Australian Financial Review, has put that achievement through its filter, and then decided that it is worthy of placement within its pages, then that is 100 times more powerful than anything you're ever gonna say. Yeah. And then. Yeah, so So in terms of, yeah, is there a place? Absolutely, and I think I would submit that we're going to see, we're going to see a rush back to trusted sources, you know, as misinformation and fake news. You know, I even look at I haven't looked at what's happening, you know, the regulation of influencers now, so that influencers can't advertise a product without declaring that it's an upfront, I mean, this sort of the tightening of the screws is going to only occur at a greater and greater rate. And it will be the it will be the traditional media outlets who have established trust with their audience over Many, many years that will, that will I think people will eventually start to go back to because they'll be otherwise swimming in a sea of misinformation and just really cannot trust.
Liz Nable 35:10
Yeah. And I think that's a really good point. Because with COVID, particularly, you know, like you say, the fake news and conspiracy theories and all that sort of thing. And I say a big media outlet like channel line, for example, can't just go to air with a story that Suzy in the newsroom thinks her next door neighbour blah, there's there's accountability for them. Yeah. So all that is fact check. And perhaps if you haven't worked in the media before, and you only see what you see on social media. Now, you don't realise that? There's, there's a big accountability. That's that's why those media companies can sell advertising and make that their business.
Bryce Corbett 35:47
Yeah. Absolutely. And that's that's an excellent point. You know, they have made a very good business for many years about saying to advertisers, if you want to be next to this credibility and this credible source of information, then it's going to cost you.
Liz Nable 36:02
Yeah. And that's why, you know, from being in a newsroom and being in live television, for example, if the wrong thing goes to air, that is a massive deal. Their credibility.
Bryce Corbett 36:13
Yeah, massive consequences. Yeah.
Liz Nable 36:17
So we're looking for when you're receiving a pitch, someone who understands the product, who's obviously read the magazine, listen to the podcast, watch the TV show. And just kind of moving into that a little bit more deeply. When you read women's weekly, obviously, you're looking at this is what I do, if I'm pitching to a magazine that I don't know, say, for example, women's weekly reading, reading it over the period of time and looking for a formula in those stories, because there's a formula, right?
Bryce Corbett 36:46
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, there is. It's an it's in, it's pretty simple to work out, you read six issues of it, and you go, alright, well, they always have at least one of these stories. At least one of these stories may always, I mean, it is coloured by numbers to a large extent, because these, these, these products largely work because they've hit on a formula that works. Yeah, so you work out. So decode the formula, and then work out where you can slot yourself into it.
Liz Nable 37:10
Yeah. And the formula, obviously, for the Women's Weekly is going to be totally different to the formula for AFR, totally different to a radio Breakfast programme, et cetera, et cetera. But it's not hard, once you listen or read enough to work out that formula. Even journalists?
Bryce Corbett 37:25
No, it's not. And I think if you read if you're reading, I mean, it's a straight simple test, isn't it? If you're reading, I mean, it's vital that you read the product or the product, or watch the product that you're pitching to, because otherwise you're pitching. Again, as I said, in splendid isolation, it's never gonna happen. That if you're reading a product, and there is a story about your sector, or your industry, and if you find yourself going, that's not right, or you find yourself going like, Oh, that reminds me of, or you find yourself going, I've got a, I've got a case study that, that that backs that up, or perhaps proves that, then that's a pretty good sign that that you you know, that's, that's perhaps what you should be pitching. Yeah, pitching that, because a journalist is going to want to make quite clearly they state, you know, what their stake in the ground about what they think the issue is and what they think it's about. And so anything you can either add to that or help to and to further elaborate that, or even if it's too distant is to counter it. Because, you know, good journalists are not going to if you come up and say, Well, that wasn't exactly my experience. And you might be interested to learn this a good journalist will go, will you tell me what your experience is? And if I think it's a credible account of what's going on, then I can, I certainly can pivot and I can change the way that I'm reporting the next iteration of this
Liz Nable 38:47
issue. Yeah. Yeah. So understand the product. Yeah. establish the relationship, even if it takes a bit of time. Yeah. You know, look for a formula or a pattern in the way that articles are written, or the way the news is presented, or the, you know, feature stories presented. The easy to work with. Yeah,
Bryce Corbett 39:07
yeah. Be easy to work with. And don't be the one that's complains when things don't, you know, yeah, how you want them to avoid doubt.
Liz Nable 39:15
And be prepared to kind of you don't really have the ultimate say, at the end of the day, what the journalist decides to do with this. So there is a little bit of a risk involved. Absolutely. If you haven't read the product properly, or listen to
Bryce Corbett 39:29
all my buttons, like, you know, like, it's like, yeah, okay, you want a profile, but understand that we're playing by their rules. We don't go in there and set the set the rules for how this game is played. You know, it's like, you wouldn't run onto a rugby field and say, I don't like that rule. And I don't like that one. And I'll only play if you let me do this, that and the other. Like, that's not how it works. So the rewards Yeah, can be very high, as the risk is there as well, and you have to accept that.
Liz Nable 39:55
I liked that analogy. The rugby analogy. I thought you would Yeah, and you are, if you don't understand what you're putting yourself out there for, there is a chance that they could take what you're saying, and use it for another story or use it with someone who disagrees with you. Or it might be more controversial than you realise it might stir them. And obviously, they're looking for content. Once the information is out there, it's a free for all.
Bryce Corbett 40:22
Absolutely, you hand it over. And you don't even control how it's used, where it's used. The context in which it's used that bit, I mean, you you, if you're working, I will say this, obviously. But if you're working with people, like PR people who have good relationships, then you can minimise the likelihood of ending up somewhere that it's not meant to. Or a good a good PR person will will smell a mile off. If if you know if it's a story, you shouldn't have anything to do with because they a good PR person will look at it and just go, yeah, look in the context of all the other stuff that's going on at the moment. And in the context of that particular issue. And where I know your business is that what they're really trying to do is to set you up to be the, you know, the bad. Yeah, whatever it may, you know, so I would avoid it like the plague. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of considerations.
Liz Nable 41:24
Yeah. So just before we finish, I know that obviously, storytelling, if you're, again, you're not from a PR or or journalists background, and you are in a business and you're looking to get, you know, increased exposure or, you know, news jacker certain situation, how important is it in your pitch to tell a story? I think this gets missed a lot, that you might get facts pitch to you, but you need a story.
Bryce Corbett 41:49
Yeah, you do? Absolutely. And I've kept keep referring to case studies, I think in our conversation, and maybe that is not clear to people what I mean by that, but you know, whether I was working at the Women's weekly or the financial review, 60 minutes, it was all about story. There's no question. But before even that it was about people, people, you know, it's about people. So, story about numbers and facts and figures is great, but what impact is that having on a human being? What impact is that having on your customer, on your clients on you, on your industry, spirit with specific human experiences always going to trump land facts and figures? You know, it's the same reason every time every time you pick up the newspaper in its there's a property story about or inflation or whatever it may be, that story will be illustrated by a cup, a young couple who've just bought a home in Yes, you know, Western Sydney or something or other or trying to get onto the first home buyers like that. At first glance, you go how is that going? Anything to do with inflation, whatever it may be, but clearly it does. And newspaper editors understand that, that those two human faces are going to make this issue much more palatable.
Liz Nable 43:09
Yeah, I often say that about medical stories, particularly in TV, we need pictures and pictures of syringes in you know, an empty science lab is pretty boring. Yeah, always start with so and so who's unwell because of blah, blah, blah, and just tried this diabetic drug, it has to be a story. And as a business owner, you almost need to be prepared that the story is probably going to be either about you or whoever you've pitched to be the talking head for your
Bryce Corbett 43:37
article. Your story. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Liz Nable 43:41
So that's really important not to forget that it's going to be about people. It's always about people. That's what makes a story. That's what resonates and evokes emotion from the reader rather.
Bryce Corbett 43:51
Yeah. And just always bear in mind, what what face would I put to this? If they came back to me and said, Who do I photograph to illustrate this story? Or who do I feel to illustrate this story? Then you have someone in mind?
Liz Nable 44:05
Yeah, you need to be ready to go at a moment's notice. Yeah. Any sort of last minute tips or tricks, any big pitfalls, disaster stories, any parting words of wisdom?
Bryce Corbett 44:18
Oh, look, I keep banging on about relationships. But it is really super important to invest in in as you're able to invest in relationships with journalists and editors in the various you know, in whatever sector it is that you're working in. There will always be either trade publications covering that sector, or there will be a sector reporter at a newspaper or a TV station or radio station or whatever it may be online publication. Take the time to to establish a actual relationship with them. I mean, it's interesting I've Yeah, I find I'm of the vintage where that meant having a lunch or a coffee. V or, or, or very drunk? And you know that I think things post COVID Maybe have changed a little bit, but I certainly know younger generations are terrified if you find them and they just want to be texted. I know.
Liz Nable 45:13
Bizarre too. And I think I would think you would form a much more solid start to relationship by meeting someone for a coffee, or a drink, whatever. Then a million text messages or emails,
Bryce Corbett 45:25
yeah. And look, don't don't just be mindful that these are very, very busy people. So don't if you manage to get them out for a coffee, don't just go I just wanted to say hello. Go make sure you've got something to give them something good to say. Let's make sure you've got something good to say. And make sure above all, make sure you've read the last story they wrote. Because number of times that you know, you see people and they're completely oblivious to a story that this journalist has sweated blood create. And you just think that's not smart. Like it's a short it's a quick Google. It's a quick run to the news agent, whatever it may be.
Liz Nable 46:09
And it's a great conversation starter, and it's flattering to think
Bryce Corbett 46:13
complete clattering and and and it will elevate you in their mind as someone who's across their brief.
Liz Nable 46:20
Perfect. Bryce, thank you so much. I know you are a very busy person. So I'd very much appreciate your time today and all your wisdom. Your welcome list. Always a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of enable my business. If you've loved it, please share it on Instagram and Facebook for your friends. I'm all about listening and learning from you my audience. So please pop a review on iTunes and let me know how you're enjoying the show. I'd love to hear from you. So if you have any questions, email me at Liz at Liz nabal.com And if you want to know more about what I do, head over to Liz nabal.com I truly hope this podcast is a game changer for you. Whether you're a small business owner, a franchisee you have a side hustle or you're just starting out. This is where you truly begin to build your own empire and the life of your dreams.
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