Liz Nable 0:00
If you follow fashion or women's magazines, you'll likely know the name Lizzie rank hurt. The former editor of the now defunct fashion magazine, Madison turned fashion designer has spent her entire career in either fashion or the media. Her name is synonymous in both industries. She's one of those unique and fortunate if you ask me, humans, who's experienced both the glamorous life of women's fashion magazines, and the not so glamorous side of starting your own business from scratch, but that also gives her a unique perspective on how to build your brand, using the media and PR. Starting off in her first job straight out of fashion college as an assistant at Marie Claire. Yes, a job a million girls would die for. Lizzie spent years on the receiving end of hundreds of email pitches a day from small businesses, designers and product based businesses hoping to get their five minutes of fame on the pages of a coveted women's magazine. She's seen the good, bad and the ugly of how to get your business featured in the media. She's seen it all and she knows what works and what doesn't. Then once Madison closed, Lizzie turned her hand to fashion designing teaming teaming up with her talented and creative sister Georgie to launch the stunning floral themed fashion house. We are kindred and now found herself the one pitching fit air time. Through her 18 years experience in women's magazines. Lizzy possesses a deep understanding of fashion consumers and knows exactly how the fashion media works. If there's anyone who can share their wisdom and insider secrets on how to cut through the noise and get noticed, it's Lizzie rancour, and I can't wait to share with you her expertise in this episode. So turn up the volume and tell the kids to pipe down, you're not going to want to miss a single second of this one. Hello, I'm Liz Nabal. And you're listening to Nable My Business The Podcast. When I first started in small business almost 10 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting into. You see, my background was in the media. I had spent 15 years as a television news journalist and reporter working at several major networks in Australia. And then as a freelancer in the US and around the world. I spent years dividing my time between working long shifts on a news desk and travelling the world chasing stories. It was unpredictable and exciting. Until it wasn't anymore. I decided I wanted a life where I was in charge of what happened next. And where I was working to build my own empire, not someone else's. I also never wanted to work on midnight new shift again. Now, I don't have to. There was a lot I had to learn about running my own business. But one thing I already had in the bag was how to get media coverage and free PR. I knew what the media wanted. I knew the secret formula for what made us and I knew how to leverage those organisations to build my business, get more exposure, and ultimately make more sales. During my decade of building my business, I have managed to get featured in almost every major news outlet in the country. I've been interviewed on television countless times had personal profiles written up in women's magazines, done point of view pieces for large newspapers, and been listed in top 100 List Women in Business and in my industry. And I've never spent a single cent on PR. I took that knowledge for granted until it dawned on me one day that I could teach what I knew to other businesses, let them in on the secret and they too could build their businesses, leveraging the media and gaining free PR. They could use my insights in the industry and my behind the scenes experience and take their business from Best Kept Secret to well known brand simply by following my formula. Welcome to enable my business, the podcast. Hi, Lizzie, thank you so much for coming on the show today. We're super excited to have you as our guest.
Lizzie Renkert 4:10
Thanks, Liz. Thanks for having me.
Liz Nable 4:13
Now, a lot of people will know your name. Your name is synonymous with your magazine editor. I think that was your first kind of career as in women's magazines and then you foray into the world of fashion as a business owner. Tell me a little bit about that early part of your career and then maybe career progress into the editing and and how you came to be where you are right now.
Lizzie Renkert 4:39
Yeah, I've always wanted to be a journalist. So I went and so my first year I studied journalism and part of that course that Macleay College was you got a day a week free time essentially. And lots of lots of students is used as free time but I I was gung ho about getting a job. So I went and worked in the Marie Claire Features Department as an editorial assistant. And then, at just the day before I graduated, Jackie Frank, the founder, the editor of Marie Claire called me and offered me a job. I had actually, I came home that night and said to my parents had been offered this job. I wasn't really into magazines, I didn't really care about magazines. I wasn't one of those girls who desperately wanted to work in in fashion magazines when I was growing up. I wanted to be a TV journalist, but my dad was like, you take the job. And if you want to find another job from there, fine, but you take the job. And I did. And I absolutely loved and I worked my way up Marie Claire, I worked as a researcher and a photo editor and I did all sorts of things. And I became quite a good, all rounder. And so I was there for nearly 10 years, I think. And then I got poached by and be the deputy editor on the launch of Madison magazine. And Madison was going up against Marie Claire. So I went and worked over there with Paula Joy, who was the Editor and I had I loved being a Deputy Editor. That's probably career wise, that's probably the happiest I ever was in my in my work life. Because you've got the responsibility of running a team and, and seeing a beautiful product come to fruition, but not the huge pressure of being the top dog. And also management. And then Paula left, after about five years, I think. And then I became the Editor of Madison, which was amazing. And I am super proud of the work that we did there. Unfortunately, the GFC came into play and people stopped consuming media in the way that we that we knew it. So you know, readership, and everything was really tricky for magazines. So unfortunately, Madison wasn't one of the magazines to survive that. So we So Madison closed and, and I I took it really hard and I didn't really have the stomach to go in straight again and, and do it. And I really would like just to do another magazine role. And I really also wanted to make sure that I wasn't going to step into another situation where it was going to happen again, because I had worked out that the that that people were consuming media differently. I also fell pregnant a couple of months after I was made redundant and it's very tricky to go off and, you know, go for a high powered, full time role. And you know that you're having a baby and you've already got it. Yeah. So that's when my sister and I decided to launch we are kindred, Georgie my sister and business partners, she has the fashion design background. So she'd been to she's got an honours in in fashion design. She'd been working in product development for a decade for the apparel group. And I'd seen a tiny gap and a quite an overcrowded market. But I'd seen a tiny gap in a small in this market for this pretty aesthetic that Georgie and I were going to do, which was floral frocks and things it was before everyone started doing. Making florals part of their ranges. And we had a blast for you know, for ages was amazing growing a blank a brand from scratch, from literally, you know, doing building a website, building an Instagram following building a brand. And then and watching it grow organically pretty much. And it was you know, it was fantastic. I didn't even know what wholesale meant. At the beginning and then, you know, we grew the we grew the wholesale business to be quite a big part of the business worldwide. And we started shipping all over the world. And yeah, it was it was it was amazing. And you know, and it's still it still is it's just that the you know, as I watched magazines change, so I've watched the fashion industry change through COVID as well. So it's definitely been a massive learning curve on my part, this career of mine. Certainly I've never felt like I feel like I don't know a lot all the time. And I'm really good at asking at realising what I don't know and getting the right people around me to ask the right questions.
Liz Nable 9:42
Good thing we're journalists because we can
Lizzie Renkert 9:45
exactly right. Ask lots and lots of questions.
Liz Nable 9:51
So I would say you've got a similar background to me and that you've spent some time on the media side of the media and then the other part of your career building a business. How important were the media skills that are inside information and the insight to the media for you to be able to use your skills to get your brand? You said you loved building the brand? Was that a part of it using it?
Unknown Speaker 10:17
Yeah, look, definitely, I think that the key thing is to make sure that you've got a really strong brand story to tell. So it doesn't matter how many contacts you've got, or back, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to get lots of coverage. But if you've got a great story that people like hearing, and people like, you know, and you can condense it down into some learnings, or you can you really know how to to talk to your customer, then I think it's really clever to utilise the media to get that to get that brand and your story out there. And that might be through like, I don't necessarily think it's just doing a press release. Yeah. Hi, Daisy, sorry, dog. It's not necessarily doing a press release and sending it out and hoping that maybe we're going to pick up on it, you have to give, you have to give the press things to talk about. So whether that be you know, for us, for example, it would be a collection launch or taking part in Fashion Week. So that you've actually got stuff, you've got newness to talk about, you know, going over to LA. And when a few years ago, when we were just breaking into the American market, we went over to LA and we held a really small, intimate event in an Australian, I can an Australian owned bar. And we invited, you know, the Hugh Sheridan and all sorts of Aussie actors and things and actors and influencers and people, friends of the brand. And you know, and that became something for us to talk about back home. So I think it's actually you've got to like, it's not necessarily just going, like, cool, I'm just going to like invest in Facebook, I'm going to get a PR who's going to do a release every month, you've got to constantly have stories
Liz Nable 12:08
to tell. So they can then utilise the media. And I think as journalists or x journalists, or whatever we are, we we know what that story is. It's an innate thing. And what I've learned from coaching small business owners is it's not necessarily innate. Tell me what what's your brand story or what, you know, what's your story for? The fashion business? And? And how, and how can people use the kind of formula of those stories to leverage their business?
Lizzie Renkert 12:40
Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean, obviously, you know, it's easier to tell a story when you've got a really visual brand. Because that's because you go on to an Instagram page, and you know, exactly what that brand is. Yeah. However, I also I think it was like we never wanted and we're not we are kindred isn't a brand that is a, an Uber cool, scary fashion brands that, you know, where you couldn't approach us or you couldn't walk into the walk into the store that we had in Paddington and, and you couldn't talk to us because it is about it's, it's about, it's about evoking a feeling in people and making people feel happy. So we really wanted what, you know, we went into, we went into it, and from my days in magazines, I was like, most women don't like their arms. Most women don't like the top, you know, their knees, let's like create pieces where they're going to feel good in them. Let's create, like, you know, we went up to a size 20 in certain styles, because I thought that it was completely silly to, to exclude such a huge part of the population by not by only staying in that small in those small sizes. So they're little like, that's part of the brand story. Yeah, it's not like it's not just a sort of like I can give you the snippet but you know, we're Kindred is a beautiful boho Luxe, feminine collection designed by assistants, Georgie and Lizzie like there's that Yeah. And there are the little the little bits that make the brand personable and that is you know, and they're things that you and I'm sure for the for anyone listening you've probably got completely different businesses to mine. But if you think of those little things like your why like the reason why you're doing it like the reason why your customers are coming to you think of like those those top five whys and then turn those into little stories. And it doesn't need to be, you know, on CHANNEL NINE NEWS. It needs to be you need to have I came up with a thing in magazines, years and years ago and was stopped counting the people you reach and reach the people who count. Because if you've got 2 million follower like that, if you got 2 million followers Good on you, but if only 200,000 of them are actually engaging, then they're the ones you have to talk to. Yeah. They're the ones. So I think we get bogged down in being so impressed by people's numbers these days. You know, it's how many followers have they got, how many clicks, how many likes? And you know, and that's all very well and good. But if that's not working for your brand, if there's still, you know, if you're spending heaps and heaps of money on influences, but you're not actually getting that return on investment, if you're not seeing that, then that means that you need to change your strategy. And, and, you know, in my experience, yes, part of that was making sure that we had things to say in the media. So making sure that we utilise the media to tell our story, but then also taking ownership of that ourselves and talking to our customers through our own channels.
Liz Nable 16:10
It's interesting, though, yeah, because so your brand story to clarify for anyone listening who's like, okay, so what your brand story is, yes, it's a story, like a story that you read in a book, it sits on your website, it might sit on the About Us page, or goes on your social media profile, those sort of things. But it also bleeds into every area of your business. So it's the way you talk to people, it's the way you the language that you use, it's the way you make people feel. So that starts with that brand story. And that's what a lot of people that are small business owners that I talked to will be like, but when I use that, like, I can't descend my brand's story to the media. I'm like, that's not the point of the brand stone. That's just the foundation of who you are. And then we live stories out of that, that align with your brand story. Would you say? That's a correct?
Lizzie Renkert 16:59
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I was one of them. Like, I be like, Oh, God, do I really have to write a brand profile? Oh, God, no one wants to know about because I, I'm not very good at, like, tooting my own horn, right. So that are called Do I really, but it is actually really important. It is like it's something you know, aside from the fact that you know, sitting down and just doing it means that it is something to sit on your website, if you are asked for it, you've got it there. When new employees start, they can they can read it. And you know, that does make sense. To me now, I think every brand needs needs one because because every business is a brand. Even if you don't absolutely, even if you view it as a my business not it's a brand that they like it or not that whether you like it or not, it is and and we have to treat it like another member of our family.
Liz Nable 18:03
So when you started We Are Kindred because you had that media exposure. Because I know a lot of people listening will be like, well, it's all well and good, Lizzie because she was in the media like of course it would have been easy for her to get that exposure. What was your experience with it? Were they coming to you to say like, oh, that's fair to you, or?
Lizzie Renkert 18:17
No. I wouldn't say that I had it any easier than someone who had no media background, to be honest. There might have been a little more interest for people wanting to know whether you know what I was gonna do next a little bit, but I certainly didn't have heaps and heaps of help. No. I'm not quite sure why
Liz Nable 18:47
I didn't. Are you pitching? Would you did you pitch to any media outlets when you first started or when I first started?
Lizzie Renkert 18:53
That was a story. Because yeah, that's because that was because because when Madison closed that was the story, unfortunately. So and not all media is good media. Right? I you know, sometimes, you know, when Madison clothes that was awful. I the last thing in the world I wanted was for my redundancy and my staffs redundancy to be all over the papers. Were already sort of set it so that what I was going to do next became a story because of that. Yeah. So that was you know, that was fine. Yes, the papers covered it, etc. It was it served a couple of years in though where you where you need because you get past a business launch, and everything's super exciting when you launch like you don't know what what's around the corner. You're kind of really sort of positive and fresh and feeling really energised. And you know, and you also like I didn't know how to run a business so I I have worked it out along the way, but I didn't realise how hard it would be. Yeah. And, Mike, I have so much respect for people who own their own businesses, it is so difficult. There are so many intricacies that go along with it, there's so much that you need to deal with from cash flow, tax staffing. It's so tricky. And, you know, I think I can't remember where I was going.
Liz Nable 20:31
I think it's hard. I know where you're going, you're about to say, after the excitement of launch, when you're in your second
Lizzie Renkert 20:37
year, as the excitement of a launch, then you kind of get into the nitty gritty, you know, if you've got a couple of you've got, you've got more stuff, you're doing bigger collections, you're spending more money on production, everything seems to start costing a lot more, the more you try to grow it and this doesn't mean that you're going Oh, cool. I've got like half a million dollars to spend on marketing or whatever like this is these are tiny budgets, but it's still coming out of your pocket. So but the media side of things, in my experience was that you know, you it doesn't matter who you are. And because it didn't matter. For me, it said I certainly wasn't getting heaps of extra exposure, because I'd been in the media before. If I had something to talk about if I had something that was newsworthy if I had something that worked in the fashion pages, then I would get then I get coverage. Yeah. Because it's about what you're saying rather than who you know. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'm
Liz Nable 21:38
on the other side of things like going back to your days as a magazine editor. And even at Marie Claire, by the way, like that's like I would have died to have gotten offered that job like has
Lizzie Renkert 21:49
probably been I know, and I did within a couple of weeks. I mean, I didn't I stayed there for a decade. So clearly then did love it. But within a couple of weeks, I was
Liz Nable 22:01
like, Oh, wait, this is actually a really good job. From your days on that side of a women's magazine, particularly so we talk we talk generally about obviously small businesses here on the show, but I'm assuming you might be able to give some tips to product based businesses, I guess, women who run I don't know makeup, skincare, fashion, any product by businesses or otherwise, about the kind of pictures you saw coming in, what are you looking for what what is like distance? Oh, like a delete?
Unknown Speaker 22:35
Yeah, it is tricky. And I haven't been in it for a while too. But I mean, certainly in the beauty space, they, it did make sense to get your product in front of the right people. So it doesn't matter whether you're just emailing someone, I think like your actual product. And that is a with a great story delivered to their desk, so that you've got the you know, your you know, to the beauty editor or the beauty director or whatever. Because so that they can actually trial it out. I mean, this is the role too, you know, where where PR agencies have, if you've got an actual product that you want to see it, even if you engage a PR agency, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have a PR agency every single month. Yeah. But you can engage, if you've got, if you've got a launch, then maybe you engage a PR agent for a month or two, to actually get it out to the right, people, just because the beauty of a PR agent is that they have the contacts, the emails get opened. And they're already talking to the press about other brands. And a lot of it these days, too, is you know, a lot of the parent advertising space is around spend, which never used it never used to be
Liz Nable 24:11
I was gonna ask you about that. So it always used to be church and
Lizzie Renkert 24:15
state. We would run whatever we wanted in the editorial side and the advertising side and run completely different. Now, it's what I haven't been doing it for a long time, but I think that you know what, we came up we came up with different ways to do it at Madison. So we would you know, we obviously we'd need the advertising dollars to help float the magazine. Yes, that was part of the business model. And we would pitch adverts advertorial ideas to to advertisers. And then obviously if if a if a masthead is asking for the is saying that their audience is perfect for this advertiser, then it would go to say that, you know, then that advertiser should then fit into the editorial space as well. So then that I would imagine is still happening. So, so you have, so for smaller brands, it becomes trickier, again, to get to get that cut through. So I would suggest, you know, probably suggest engaging a PR agency just for just to get your foot in the door, and then it'll take it over. Yeah,
Liz Nable 25:38
in your opinion, because a lot of obviously, again, a lot of the listeners to the show, is still learning about how the media works, and all that sort of stuff. And some comes to me and say, well, I'll just take out an ad Dan doesn't like that's the same thing, right? Like, can you explain a bit about what's the difference between seeing like, Gucci in a full page ad in Madison, or whoever it might be? And then seeing someone talk about, like, explain the credibility there? Yeah,
Lizzie Renkert 26:04
um, I mean, taking out an ad is also really expensive. So an eye unless you are going to go to that magazine, or that media outlet, and take out the ad, but have the conversation about them, giving you an editorial, you know, about doing your brand, as a partner, and coming up with some ideas, you know, surrounding that, so that you get both like, fine. But if you're just going to take out an ad, I would have thought that your return on investment, wouldn't miss it. Because there's, there's visibility, and that's great. But if you're a small business, and you're trying to actually get sales. Yeah. And I think that you need it goes back to that storytelling. You need. You need people in the know you need the people that you that you think are the right people to be showcasing your brand or to be talking to their, to the audiences about your brand. You need them in the bag, so that you can see that then you've got credibility and their readers or their, their listeners or whoever they're then coming to you for your product. I think it's far. Yes, old, old school media used to just take up an ad is far harder these days to get that cut through. But I think that it would definitely worth worth, like having those editorial discussions. I don't think just taking out an ad that I certainly wouldn't
Liz Nable 27:41
know. Absolutely. Does anything stand out to you from your career of like small businesses or medium businesses who came to you and just did something out of the ordinary to get your attention or anything, like, just really quirky and stand out way?
Lizzie Renkert 27:58
Yeah, I really love it when small businesses work together sometimes, too. So we did a couple of we did a couple of lead gen. Facebook marketing campaigns where I approached it and health freight. And we ran this competition where, you know, one of our customers want $1,000 wardrobe, from kindred and a long weekend at eight and health retreat. And that that was really successful for us, I think we've got a couple, you know, got a few 1000 Extra subscribers on our database. And our customers were really, really happy that we were doing something for them. We weren't just asking them to buy a dress. We were actually we were admitting that, you know, life gets hard and who would you know, who wouldn't love a health retreat? Yeah, you know, so I think, you know, I've got another girlfriend who owns the who owns a fragrance label called recreation beauty and we have done collabs together for Mother's Day and things where we give where we where we give, you know, customers are kindred pack and recreation pack and you know, and we grow our Instagram followings by you make them the tag a post, follow both follow both when it's not brain surgery, but it does. It does work. And it gives it's giving them this value add and it's, you know, so due to I think that the brands that I think it's really important to not just be shoving product down people's throats all the time. I think, you know, in your case, asking, you know, asking people just to buy packs, or you know, I think you've got to talk about the stories behind like, you know, tell the stories of who, you know, have an amazing engagement party where our dresses are worn or the love story behind you know, those things Just sort of tell some Tilson little cute stories. Yeah. Make people feel like they're part of your brand. Yeah. I think in the beauty space I think I think Frank Frank body do a really great job I think leathers phenomenal at at that customer customer experience. You know, from a commercial perspective, I think cotton ons really, really great at like, just upselling. It's like going into, like going into IKEA, you come out with all this stuff that you don't need, you know? So I think you know, there's HANES Brands who are doing really great, great job. But for smaller businesses like ours, you know, it's tricky, because you're like, Oh, my God, it's so expensive. And every sale costs money, because you've got to put money behind it. But that's why I think it's just nice to have a breather sometimes and use your ATM. Use your ATM database to talk to your customers, not just in a byproduct way.
Liz Nable 31:07
Yeah, absolutely. Do you have any sort of what not to do from your magazine days of like doozy pictures where you've just gone? Oh, my God, no way or reasons why you would delete an email? Because you're trying to give people insight into just lambasted people with
Lizzie Renkert 31:24
Yeah. Don't hound people think come? If they're not replying, then it doesn't necessarily mean that it's because your product isn't right. They just might be too busy. But I just think if you haven't heard back haven't heard back. Don't I think that you do need to the number of emails I get from SEO marketing companies with exactly the same line at the top. I've been looking at your website and and then last told me that the problem that I've got with my website thanks very much, buddy. I didn't ask for that emails. And I've already had 10 today. So I think you've got to be really, like personal, personable, but not too familiar, like you do know, your dog. And then that's why I think like, if you're just starting out in terms of and you think you've got something great that the press should be covering, or that influence that you really want influences to be showcasing or whatever, I think it probably would come best from someone who is really, you know, a good PR person who knows. Yeah, rather than you burning bridges that you don't know. I mean, you can just like reach out to people on Instagram and see if their reply, like, yeah, you can do it that way. But that for more, that's for the influence side of things, rather than the press side of things. Yeah. And the press these days, like they are completely understaffed. They are doing the jobs of 10 people. So a lot of the time, they're just not going to get to it, unfortunately. Yeah, having said that, you know, it doesn't if you if you have a brand that isn't getting any press at all, that doesn't mean that it's not going to work either. Because if you've got a really, if you've got a really engaged audience, and you're speaking to them in the right way, in the way that they like to be spoken to, then just worry about that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like, you know, it doesn't like every single brand in the world is not getting press. So, you know, like, maybe maybe your business doesn't need it.
Liz Nable 33:52
Yeah, it's not necessarily the only indication, you don't have
Lizzie Renkert 33:56
to do it. And so it really depends on what your business is and what your product is. And, and you have to take the ego out of it, too. Like if you just want press because you just want it to look good, then that's not an I personally wanted, like, yes, there were brand stories and things but in terms of the magazines, after I left magazines, magazines actually, like photographing our pieces, like in the magazine, you know, I came up with it, there was a direct return on investment for that for that dress bang out of the out of the press rack for that amount of time. Yeah. So if you have to think about it from from an ROI perspective, sometimes PR is great, but sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's not. You know, if their audience isn't the audience that you need to talk to, there's no it doesn't matter. No, yeah.
Liz Nable 34:55
Yeah, if you speaking of that, from this use Madison as an egg example. I know, women's magazines have changed a lot in the last sort of decade. But how important is when someone was pitching you? In a magazine has an editorial features director or whatever, that they understand your product that they they consume your business? Yes. Very. So give me an example. So Madison as an example, because you know that, obviously, what was your, tell me a bit about what was your formula for the magazine, what we
Lizzie Renkert 35:27
look here, we were a magazine for thinking women, we were a magazine that knew all of that, you know, that, yes, women who loves fashion and wanted to look after themselves, etc. But they really wanted to know what was going on in the world. We knew that they were juggling a lot, they tended to be women who had just started their families. And you know, I think I can't remember, but I think our target market was around the 3535. Mark. So we knew that they were juggling a lot. And it was super, super important, right? When receiving a pitch that that person, like you have to have, at least, like gotten into their mindset, it's not brain surgery, it's not hard to open up whichever publication you're going to pitch to, and look at it have a few issues, Raiders perspectives, because it's like if you're, if you pitch to some to an editor, and it's abundantly clear that you haven't even looked at it, I still get, I still get emails from PR companies that think that I still work in magazines, and I'm like, you haven't updated your details. Like, so only, you know, so you do get emails even when you don't work in your anymore from because you're on someone's database, and they haven't cleared it through. So it's really, really, and I'm being pitched ridiculous things that wouldn't have worked in medicine, let alone. So I think it's very, very important to look to acknowledge and to make it quite clear that you really, you know, you've done your research. So whether that be you know, in the first line is our really love what you really love that story that you ran last month on blah, blah, to show that you've earned it yet, you know, you're you're pandering to whoever's reading it by saying, I really like what I do, like, you know, just being polite, really? Yeah.
Liz Nable 37:36
Yeah. So, so good sample pitch is something along the lines of like, what's so what sort of do they need a special like subject line? Or?
Lizzie Renkert 37:46
I mean, I guess they should have us, I'm trying to think back to what it was like. I mean, I guess also, it really depends on you want to make sure you don't want to send everything to the editor in chief, like you want to make sure that you're talking to the right person, because there's different, you know, there's and may and maybe that, but what I would have suggested back then, is to call the editors, PA, and to tell them what you're about to pitch and to ask for the correct person on staff. So that you're at least sending it to the health editor or deputy editor, or, and lots of a lot of the time now I think lots of roles are done by by freelancers. So they might have, you know, they might not even be on staff. But that would be probably my first point of call. And I guess and it makes it makes sense to make sure that whatever is in that headline suggests, yeah, in that subject line, you include the title of the post that you're pitching to, and your product so that you've thought about the two of them, melding
Liz Nable 38:53
Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of and a lot of sort of draft pitches that I see coming from clients, you know, three pages long, and they've got attachments in there.
Lizzie Renkert 39:03
Oh, no, no, no. So really, really short, like, couple of couple of paragraphs don't even have an attachment to a screenshot, do a screenshot of the bit that you really need to get across. I always find it. It's I will, I personally will read an email to the end if there's a visual on it. Not a picture of you, but like a visual of whatever it is that's been cached so that they don't have to open the attachment. Yeah, yeah. Just really short. And then they come back to you and they want more information. Great, but don't send an entire deck.
Liz Nable 39:42
No, no, absolutely. Yeah. Thank you, Nick. So you're thinking of your potential journalist, on the other end, being super time poor, potentially doing the jobs of several people and getting 40 million emails a day? Yeah, yeah,
Lizzie Renkert 39:55
yeah. Yeah. And if it takes too long to load, they'll just delete it. Yeah.
Liz Nable 39:59
So Don't attach big massive attach on Attach big
Unknown Speaker 40:02
massive files if they want. If they want more information, they'll they'll come back to you. But yeah, I would do it in like two paragraphs. Yeah, like super short, with like, you know, maybe if there is a presentation take a screenshot of the most pertinent part of that prezzo. attach that.
Liz Nable 40:22
Did you ever use a PR company? In your, in your business in the fashion business? Or? Yeah, I
Lizzie Renkert 40:27
did. Yeah. So at the beginning, I didn't, but then as the brand got bigger, I did engage a couple of PR companies, and I see media were amazing. And then more recently, last communications. Just because as the biggest as the business grew, I just couldn't handle doing it all myself. And I did find too that it some, it helps. You know, when when a brand is yours, you can take things quite personally or you can like I think it's easier for for there to be a third party involved. Sometimes cause to separate, a cut from nothing. Whereas, whereas a PR agency, you know, they'll look at it from the from the process perspective. Yeah. And, you know, and for and for bigger events and Fashion Week and stuff. Oh, yeah. So it was vital that I had PR too much for you. I couldn't have run it all myself, I was already working around the clock. Yeah. But it would have helped,
Liz Nable 41:40
I think, and I and I say this to a lot of my clients, when you do have that basic knowledge of the media, it really helps to know that. It's like getting your car serviced. I always use this as my analogy. You know, getting your car serviced, when you don't really understand if the mechanic has done anything when they give it back to $5,000. So that basic knowledge of the media is super important.
Lizzie Renkert 42:02
It is super important. And, you know, and obviously, lots of people who are listening to this don't have that don't necessarily have the knowledge, but even listening to podcasts like this or talking to you is about, like your experience, it doesn't mean you have to have worked in it before. But you need to like it. You know, you're not if you're launching a business, they're not like, do you want to spend $3,000 a month on on a PR agent when you don't have all of your ducks lined up in a row yet? And probably not. So you like hold out? And and you know, and a decent PR agency will do the right thing until you'd come back when you are ready because they wouldn't be able to do the right that will do a good job of a launch.
Liz Nable 42:47
Even knowing the basics, like you say, what's your end goal? So obviously, you've got like a bricks and mortar business like like I do in our fitness business. It's like a hyperlocal business. There's no point in me being on a national TV show if most of those people can't become my customers or exactly, you know, patronise what I do. So even just having that end goal in mind, like what do you want to achieve? Is it brand awareness? Is it sales? Is
Lizzie Renkert 43:12
it? Yeah, it is that basic. Exactly. And because so at the beginning, when we launched, we're kindred brand awareness was really important. More recently, sales is more important. Yeah. So you kind of have to change your change your goalposts and you change the way that you like, what you spend your money on, depending on what those goals are.
Liz Nable 43:39
Now, I know you have to go and get kids from school. I do one last question. So owning your own business now. Is there anything you see that you would do differently from from your position now in pitching to magazines, or TV or any sort of media? Like has it sort of changed that you can see from your days in magazines?
Lizzie Renkert 44:01
I do think I mean, that, you know, it was a bit old school back then, you know, PR agencies would have beautiful showrooms and, and and the fashion editors would go around and see all of the pieces in person. Now. Everything tends tends to be digitalized, you know, you send look walks around because everyone's really busy and they can't leave their desks. So I think, you know, so that's why it's really nice to have the odd event where you get to communicate with your customers and the media by showcasing your brand in a different light rather than rather than in the showroom experience. So it has it's changed a fair bit. And it has become harder on the brands to be honest. Yeah. Hard on the brands that cutthroat cut through, but harder on the people who are working in media as well because they're understaffed, so we all have to work harder. Get to get what we used to get very easy, unfortunately.
Liz Nable 45:05
Thank you so much Lizzie for being a guest on the show. It's been a pleasure to have you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Nable My Business. If you've loved it, please share it on Instagram and Facebook for your friends. I'm all about listening and learning from you, my audience. So please pop a review on iTunes and let me know how you're enjoying the show. I'd love to hear from you. So if you have any questions, email me at Liz at Liz Nable.com and if you want to know more about what I do, head over to Liz Nable.com I truly hope this podcast is a game changer for you. Whether you're a small business owner, franchisee you have a side hustle or you're just starting out. This is where you truly begin to build your own empire and the life of your dreams.
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