Liz Nable 0:00
We've got another fabulous podcast episode in store for you today. In the spirit and excitement of the lead up to the launch of my Media Masters Academy course, on Tuesday, May 16. We're featuring yet another one of our guest experts to give you a little taster of just how good these journeys are, and what you'll learn inside the course of this round. Katie Hall is a freelance journalist with a decade's experience as an editor, writer and copyright up for articles have appeared in The Age The Sydney Morning Herald, news.com.au, Body and Soul, The Guardian and many more. Prior to freelancing, Katie was a senior columnist and breaking news reporter for News Corp, Australia and a writer for Mamma Mia. Katie is headlining our pitch to the print media week inside the MMA course, and all students get exclusive access to pitch their stories live to her inside her 60 minute masterclass. Plus, get her invaluable feedback, incredible print media connections, and fingers crossed, get their brand or business featured in the print media. The best part is as a freelancer, Katie can get you access to not just one, but dozens of potential print feature opportunities. And as you'll learn Inside today's podcast episode, she's always always on the hunt for amazing experts just like you to interview for their contribution to her articles. So you don't want to miss this episode. Hello, I'm Liz Nable and you're listening to Nable my business, the podcast. When I first started in small business almost 10 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting into. You see, my background was in the media. I had spent 15 years as a television news journalist and reporter working at several major networks in Australia. And then as a freelancer in the US and around the world. I spent years dividing my time between working long shifts on a news desk and travelling the world chasing stories. It was unpredictable and exciting. Until it wasn't any more. I decided I wanted to live where I was in charge of what happened next. And where I was working to build my own empire, not someone else's. I also never wanted to work a midnight new shift again. Now, I don't have to. There was a lot I had to learn about running my own business. But one thing I already had in the bag was how to get media coverage and free PR. I knew what the media wanted. I knew the secret formula for what made us and I knew how to leverage those organisations to build my business, get more exposure, and ultimately make more sales. During my decade of building my business, I have managed to get featured in almost every major news outlet in the country. I've been interviewed on television countless times had personal profiles written up in women's magazines, done point of view pieces for large newspapers, and been listed in top 100 List women in business and in my industry. And I've never spent a single cent on PR. I took that knowledge for granted until it dawned on me one day that I could teach what I knew to other businesses, let them in on the secret. And they too could build their businesses, leveraging the media and gaining free PR. They could use my insights in the industry and my behind the scenes experience and take their business from Best Kept Secret to well known brand simply by following my formula. Welcome to enable my business, the podcast. Hi, Katie, welcome to the enable my business podcast.
Katy Hall 3:39
Thanks for having me. Well,
Liz Nable 3:41
as the audience may or may not know Katie is going to be one of our guest experts inside the media masters Academy. She is also the first print journalist I think we've had on the show for quite some time. So we're super keen to get your insight into who you write for Katie, what you do and a little bit about what we can expect to kind of hear and see from you inside the media Master's course. Tell me a little bit about your freelance writer. Now tell me a little bit about your career to this point and who you're currently writing for. Yeah, that's
Katy Hall 4:16
right. So I became a journalist about a decade ago. And for the first few years, I was working for a number of online publications that included Mamma Mia. And then I moved to News Corp, Australia in 2017. And that was working across print and digital. So it was quite interesting because a lot of the people I worked with their their experience was predominantly in print. And my experience was only in digital to that point. So I got to sort of experience the best of both worlds there. And then two years ago, or just under two years ago, I went freelance and so for the last two years I've been In writing for The Guardian, the age and the Sydney Morning Herald, body and soul news.com. Today, you and a bunch of other publications, which has been really great. So, again, it straddles that world of digital and print.
Liz Nable 5:17
Awesome. So explain to the listeners a little bit about what freelance means, obviously means you're not dedicated to one single outlet, right?
Katy Hall 5:25
Yeah, that's right. So it means that I can work across different publications, that you traditionally wouldn't be able to share in a full time role as a journalist, you normally would work exclusively for one publication. So I have the luxury of working across different publications. But that also means that the work is a bit more up in the air and can be a bit more inconsistent. But in a way that's still really interesting because it allows me to work across different topics and different interests, and what might not work for one publication might work for another. So it gives me a lot more freedom and flexibility when it comes to storytelling. And digging into those areas that I think are really interesting. Yeah,
Liz Nable 6:11
so tell. So you started off originally, I guess, with Mamma Mia in digital, and then now you're with print, can you just explain really briefly like what the difference, the main differences are between digital media and print media,
Katy Hall 6:24
the biggest differences would be word count. So that's, that's a pretty boring one. But I will say print has very strict word counts, because it's page space, whereas you have a lot more freedom digitally, to write as much or as little as you would like. And also, it's interesting to see, and this is something the students could do if they ever wanted to, as a little exercise, how a story is sold in print versus how it's sold in digital. So headlines, the images used that kind of thing, often, it's quite different, it'll be the same story. But the way that it's presented in the print edition of the newspaper versus how it's presented on the website is quite different as well. So often it will include, you know, sent when I sit send an article in, it will include multiple headline options, but also potentially multiple versions, where one is say a 600, word count for print, and then 750 For online where I can just include a little bit more of that expert opinion or voice, where it's beneficial.
Liz Nable 7:32
That's super helpful to know to anyone who might be pitching you that digital does have a bit more freedom a bit more flexibility, like you say, with space, as opposed to the old school traditional print, which is very, very restricted, like you say, by word count, and by what they can, how long the article can go for. So so these are the basic differences between digital and print. And then can you go through, I guess, body and soul, the age city, Morning Herald, news.com.au and Mamma Mia are quite different outlets and how they might differ, just the basics of how those might differ and how you might write differently for each of those publications.
Katy Hall 8:09
Yeah, I think the biggest difference would be in terms of tone, as well as the subjects covered. But the biggest thing, and the thing that I would say for students to consider when they're pitching is the tone of a publication. So every publication has a different tone of voice. And they are often competing for the same readership, but have a different way of speaking to that readership, which is how they set themselves apart. So that would be the thing I think of first is the tone of voice. And then if I have a specific idea for an article, I like to think about, would that story fit with that tone of voice? And how would I tell that story, you know, tone and in a way that speaks to that audience? And I think that's something that's really important when you're considering pitching is working out? Is this a story that this audience would read? And if they would read it, what information would it include? That is unique to that audience? And so the basis of an article might be the same, but the information you include the specific details, and the the tone of it might be what makes it different. So for example, a publication like Mamma mia, they really like having, you know, that human interest element of having a first person who's experienced whatever it is, you're writing about, speak to it. Whereas news.com Today, you for example, might like more data and research findings, and having a more academic angle to it, even though the crux of the story itself might be quite similar.
Liz Nable 9:50
Excellent. That's a good tip. So say, could you give me another example maybe for body and soul about the kind of the kind of stories that they might like to hear about obviously, it's Health and Fitness but a bit more specific.
Katy Hall 10:02
Yeah. So I guess there's another example. So one issue could be vaping, which is very topical at the moment. I know there's a lot of reform in Australia around vaping. So for example, something like news.com, today, you would likely have a very news and data heavy angle to that. So what are the facts? What's the research? What are the experts and the leading specialists telling us, body and soul might tackle that from, again, a more human interest piece? So looking at, why are people finding it addictive? how it might affect your sleep, how it might affect your skin, so sort of personalising that information a little bit more, rather than just, here are the facts. And here's the information, it's sort of, here are the flow on effects that could affect you in your everyday life if you aren't doing this. So making it just again, that more sort of personalised experience that speaks directly to you, rather than speaking to the facts? Or the information.
Liz Nable 11:06
Amazing. And are you are you as a freelance journalist at people or say, for example, the students within the course or small business owners or, you know, industry experts, pitching you ideas, and then you pitch them to the outlets? Or are the media organisations delegating your story and saying, Here's your story, go for it.
Katy Hall 11:27
It's a combination of both. So I think one thing that journalists have in common is, we're all inherently quite nosy people. So a lot of so true. Yeah. So a lot of story ideas have actually come from, you know, having dinner with friends, or being at the pub, and someone mentioning something. And that little antenna sort of breaks up in my brain and thinks, oh, that could be a story. So often, it's just me trawling through social media news conversations, listening to podcasts, where I'll get sort of a seed of an idea for something and then do some research and pitch it that way. But a lot of them also are people reaching out with stories and ideas, as well. So it's a real mix. And I know that, obviously, I can't speak on behalf of publications, because I'm a freelancer. But from my experience of being an editor, editors are always on the lookout for really great stories and really great pitchers. It's just about making sure that the pitch speaks to that publication, and it shows that you understand that publication and their audience and that you've done your research.
Liz Nable 12:38
So if you're receiving, I guess, if you were to receive a pitch, you know, out of the blue from someone who's perhaps, you know, a, an entrepreneur or founder or someone out of the blue looked you up on Instagram and saying that you're a freelance writer, and they're pitching you, are you looking for anything specific in those pitches in terms of? Can they sort of just email you out of the blue and tell you what their story idea is? Are you looking for anything specific in those pictures? Or do they necessarily have to have a relationship with you for you to kind of pick up that story and run with it?
Katy Hall 13:12
They definitely don't need to have a relationship with me, I don't, I don't really subscribe to the gatekeeping ideal of media, I think some of the most interesting stories are from people who aren't, aren't within that sort of inner circle. So I'm always happy to have a chat to people with any ideas. I think the most important thing for me is, first of all, making sure my name spelt correctly, because it's incredible how often that happens to myself and other people, I know that our names have spelt correctly. But also checking if it's something that I've written about before. So I will often get emails where someone says, I'm reaching out because I read your article on x y Zed. And I thought that this could further that conversation, or this is also interesting, and in relation to that. So that's really helpful. But I've conversely, also had pictures where people have said, Would you like to write about this? And either it's something that I don't cover at all, or it's something I wrote about two days earlier. And a really basic Google search could have told them that. So I think it's really about I don't mind who is reaching out, it's just about showing that you've, you know, done some research and are reaching out with intention rather than spamming because I'm sure everyone's had that experience of just getting very generic emails or DMS from companies. And you can see through that that pretty quickly, I think,
Liz Nable 14:43
yeah, absolutely. We were talking a little bit before we hit record about how time intensive it is what you do. You obviously research a lot for your articles. Even if it is a pitch to you, you're you're doing research, you're doing a lot of interviews with experts. Tell me a little bit about out. So obviously, we have a lot of students within the media masters Academy who are looking to build their reputation as industry experts. How can they do that? How can they grow that reputation as that person that someone like yourself would end up reaching out to and saying, I'd like your commentary or your input on this or, or that area of expertise?
Katy Hall 15:24
That's a really good question. Because I think there's a really common misconception that the only way you can be an expert subject matter on something is by having academic qualifications, which is just untrue. So one way that you could do that to sort of circumvent, I guess, the academic route, is, use social media to your advantage. If there's an area where you know, a lot, you know, make posts about that, make rules about that. But also backup, what you're saying, with data and with research as well. So combine the best of both worlds. So, you know, for example, if you're a relationship expert, you can use the research and cite that research, but then also present it in a way that's really palatable and very conversational in a way that often research isn't, it's often quite dry, and very data heavy, and incredibly boring. But if you can sort of break that down and add that conversational tone to it, and share that information on social media, and build up an audience that way, and then engage with your followers and engage with people who are commenting. And, you know, ask people what they'd like to talk more about, or hear more about and have a conversation. I think that's a really incredible way to build up that authenticity and that expert level of dialogue without necessarily having a PhD. And
Liz Nable 17:01
absolutely, and, uh, you tell me the range of obviously experts that you're speaking to, like, what are the sorts of people that you're like looking out for in your day to day work?
Katy Hall 17:11
Or it's anyone from so a couple's counsellor to someone who does have a PhD in workplace relationships and psychology. I've spoken to salary farmers, your like, it can really be, it can, it can really vary. It's just are you the person who knows about this topic, but also is really passionate to talk about it, because often you'll find that subject matter experts know a lot, but aren't particularly great at having a free flowing conversation about something. So sort of finding someone who not only knows a lot, but also knows how to have an engaging conversation about that topic as well.
Liz Nable 17:56
Yeah, that's a great point, you need someone who's good talent, I suppose for want of a better word, who can keep it an interesting story and not make it super dry just about the facts. And you know, keeping it very industry specific.
Katy Hall 18:10
Yeah. And I think also, that comes back to passion, which again, ties into being a subject matter expert is, again, you might not have a PhD. But if you like me, for example, are incredibly passionate about reality TV, watched your 10,000 hours. But that way, your passion and genuine interest will shine through when you have a conversation with someone about that. And the more you work with journalists, it's incredible how quick one really great interview will lead on to more and more and have that domino effect of you over time becoming a recognised expert.
Liz Nable 18:51
Is there any way like any particular outlet like I know you mentioned Mamma Mia is very personal point of view, kind of directed? Is there anywhere? That's probably a really good place to start in terms of getting it getting a win in the media or to trying to get that first mentioned in the media or any particular outlets or is it just you know, posting a blog and then rehab? You know, repurposing that on your social media? Is that a good way to get some attention as an industry expert?
Katy Hall 19:18
I think it's not necessarily one publication or one outlet. It's about understanding your brand and working out, where would you expect to read your story? So what are the publications you like reading? Why do you like reading the stories in that publication? Can you imagine your own story fitting in there? So for example, if it's that your business has just had a really big win, or had a great, you know, seed round, for example, smart company might be a great place to pitch that. It's that you are juggling a small business with, you know, six kids and all sorts of other things. And it's an incredible The beautiful personal story then Mamma Mia might be the right place for that. I think it's less about saying, my goal is to have an article in this specific publication than it is to say, where is the natural home for my story? I'm just doing the research of what do you like to read? Where do you like to read it? Does your story fit in with that? Because more often than not, I think, especially for women, or I can only speak to women. The articles that I write, and the publications I write for are the ones that for years before I was a writer, I enjoyed writing.
Liz Nable 20:36
Yeah, yeah. What about in terms of the content? Obviously, we've spoke before we hit record about how unpredictable it can be doing what you do. And you know, you'll often be on a deadline, where you're always on a deadline, when you're writing, How helpful is it for you to have industry experts that you have relationships with, but also business owners, I guess, like myself, or anyone else who might be doing a course, to be on tap to help you with business ideas, or to be pitching to you because I think, generally the perception is amongst business owners that or entrepreneurs, or anyone sort of looking to perhaps pitch the media is that, you know, everybody else is doing it, and there's no real room for them. And it's too hard, because you're getting hundreds of emails a day, and they'll never get a response. Whereas my perception is there's always an opportunity, because media always needs content. And you're feeding this kind of beast, right?
Katy Hall 21:32
Yeah, absolutely. And that is true editors, and journalists are getting so many emails every day. But if it's, again, if it's a good pitch, if it's tailored, and if it's specific to your interests, more often than not, it will at the very least be read, if not written back to. And the other thing I would say is that, and this is something I'm not very good at, I would add that patience is a virtue. So there have been pictures that PRs or small businesses have sent to me. And I've said, oh, yeah, there's something there. That's, there's definitely a nugget in there. Let me have a little think about it. And I will come back to you. And it's been, you know, two or three weeks, and then I have come back and said, yes. Okay, I now have time to look at this and think about this. Can we workshop that angle a little bit? I like that the information that you've provided is all there and it's all really good. Can we workshop, the idea of it? What if we did this, but often, it's that you're reaching someone who's in the middle of a deadline storm, they're working on a project. And it's not personal that they're not writing back in the first 24 hours? Or if they say, Let me have a think about it and come back to? They will. It's just that, as you said before journalists thrive and work to deadlines, which means they'll quite often sit on an email for three weeks and then say, Oh, my editor's just told me I need a story. For tomorrow. I've got just the thing for it, and then they will reach out again. So yeah, it's definitely not personal. The opportunities there? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And I would, I would rather know about a story than not know about it, even if it's not right for me, or for the publications that I write for, I would always rather someone reached out and take a chance than think their story is not worth it. Because they believe in what they're doing enough to have created a business and taken that step, to put something out into the world. So chances are, if you feel that passionately about it, and you care about it that much, other people will too.
Liz Nable 23:46
Now, likely, you'd go back to someone you've had a good experience working with, when another story comes across your desk, and you're like, I need an expert in the industry, or I need you know, someone's opinion or comment. And if you've had a good experience with with, you know, business owner or founder or startup, whoever, to go back to them because you're on a deadline, and it's, it's in a good talent and you know, a bit you know, there'll be easy to work with.
Katy Hall 24:11
Ah, so likely, so likely, I would probably liken it to going to the hairdresser, right? Once you have found a good hairdresser. It doesn't matter if they're only free slot is at 10 o'clock on a Thursday work because you know that you're gonna get a great result, and it will infinitely make you better. And so if I work with someone who is engaging, who's passionate, who really knows their stuff, and is a delight to work with, I will absolutely not only go back to them, but there's a little network of lots of other freelance journalists and permanent journalists who will always message each other saying, Does anyone have someone that could speak to this? Does anyone know someone available on this topic? And we will all Share if it's a good, a good subject matter expert. Absolutely,
Liz Nable 25:04
yeah, of course. Now within the course, we have got you presenting a masterclass on pitching to print media, what can our students sort of expect or anyone I guess who's listening who's thinking about doing the media masters Academy, to, I guess, learn from you within that core, so the students will be live pitching, obviously, their ideas, and you'll be, you'll be helping with those, anything, any kind of sneak peek, that you can kind of let them know that they can look forward to learning within that print media week.
Katy Hall 25:36
Yeah, so I would say the the main three things that I would want to be helping people with is, first of all, working out how to optimise a pitch before you send it out, to sort of ensure that you've got the best chance of the email being opened and released for hit. But then also how to find the right angle. So that's another part of optimising for finding the right angle. And then also finding the right publication for that story. Because I think you can have a great angle and a great story. But if it's sent to the wrong publication, it's not going to work. And that rejection can feel really personal. It's often that it's just not the right home for it. So I would really like to help people make sure that they've got the right angle and the right home that they're trying to send their stories to.
Liz Nable 26:25
Yeah, I think that's also skills that whether they're they're learning from you in print media, that will apply to all different, like verticals in the media, right. So it's not just a one, you know, a very specific skill that they'll never use, again, their skills that they can apply to different aspects of the media. And, you know, even if they did employ a PR company down the road, or they had someone within their business, in charge of that part of the business, it's such a, I feel like it's this this very important asset to have as a business owner to understand the basics of how, how to pitch the media, like you say, and know how to do some of the basics of getting that business out there and getting that organic reach.
Katy Hall 27:07
Yeah, absolutely. Because even if So say, for example, there's a story that is really similar to yours. In the newspaper one day, you know, why not reach out to the journalist and say, Hey, I loved your story on that we've got a really similar story or similar business. If you're ever looking for someone to speak on this, again, I would love to speak on it. So just letting them know that you're around, if they ever need somebody, because as much as we do love to return to the same experts. Variety is important. You can't always use the same expert voices for every single article you write. So is really incredible to have that little addressbook of experts across different interests and areas. So I think understanding that and understanding how to sort of analyse the media from an outside and pitching perspective is really important, and something that will benefit you so long term.
Liz Nable 28:06
Amazing. Oh, well, I'm really excited to have you in the course Katie, and we're excited to hear more from about from what you've got to say, in our print media week. And yeah, if anyone has any questions they can I'm going to repurpose this for our socials and pop it up on the website as well so they can jump in and we can build you for all your information. Yeah, thanks so much for being here, Katie. It's been a pleasure.
Katy Hall 28:35
Thank you. Thanks so much.
Liz Nable 28:37
Thank you for listening to this episode of Nable my business. If you've loved it, please share it on Instagram and Facebook for your friends. I'm all about listening and learning from you, my audience. So please pop a review on iTunes and let me know how you're enjoying the show. I'd love to hear from you. So if you have any questions, email me at Liz at Liz Nable.com And if you want to know more about what I do, head over to Liz Nable.com I truly hope this podcast is a game changer for you. Whether you're a small business owner, franchisee you have a side hustle or you're just starting out. This is where you truly begin to build your own empire and the life of your dreams.
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