Liz Nable 0:00
I'll be honest, I was a little bit nervous and slightly intimidated to be talking to a journalist from the Australian Financial Review for this episode of the podcast. I don't know why. But the AFR just seems so, so highbrow so unattainable somehow for the hustlers like me and the community that I serve a revered Australian media institution famous not only for their incredible journalism, their dogged determination to publish trustworthy content, and to always get two sides to every story, but also their coverage of really amazing aspirational publicly listed companies and famous startups like Atlassian and Canva. They publish headlines like the 10 wealthiest executives in the ASX 300 revealed. I mean, it always seemed to me that I all my SMA clients had to already be the billion dollar success story before the AFR will touch any pitch email. I didn't think they were actively seeking the stories of SMEs who was still on their journey. Turns out I was wrong. Am I guest on today's podcast episode AFR technology reporter Jess sia breaks down all the reasons why Jess covers ASX listed tech companies software and internet culture for the paper. But she's also a master of disseminating cumbersome, confusing tech speak to broadcast to the masses, what's important in the business and financial world, no matter where your business is at or how much revenue your company makes. This is a fascinating episode, where just takes us behind the scenes of the AFR, what makes news, what sorts of stories they're on the lookout for, why they love small business pitches, and honest and transparent founder stories and why she's 100 times more likely to open a pitch email from you, a reader founder or business owner than a PR company any day. So if you're like me, or even if you're not, and you've always put getting featured in the Australian Financial Review, in the too hard or unattainable basket, you're going to find this episode a game changer. And the best uses Jess is one of the guest experts inside the August round of the media masters Academy. So treat this like a little touch of Jess before we dive in to her live masterclass inside the course. Enjoy. Hello, I'm Liz Nable and you're listening to enable my business, the podcast. When I first started in small business almost 10 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting into. You see, my background was in the media. I had spent 15 years as a television news journalist and reporter working at several major networks in Australia. And then as a freelancer in the US and around the world. I spent years dividing my time between working long shifts on a news desk and travelling the world chasing stories. It was unpredictable and exciting. Until it wasn't anymore. I decided I wanted a life where I was in charge of what happened next. And where I was working to build my own empire, not someone else's. I also never wanted to work a midnight new shift again. Now, I don't have to. There was a lot I had to learn about running my own business. But one thing I already had in the bag was how to get media coverage and free PR. I knew what the media wanted. I knew the secret formula for what made us and I knew how to leverage those organisations to build my business, get more exposure, and ultimately make more sales. During my decade of building my business, I have managed to get featured in almost every major news outlet in the country. I've been interviewed on television countless times, had personal profiles written up in women's magazines, done point of view pieces for large newspapers, and be listed in top 100 List women in business and in my industry. And I've never spent a single cent on PR. I took that knowledge for granted until it dawned on me one day that I could teach what I knew to other businesses, let them in on the secret and they too could build their businesses, leveraging the media and gaining free PR. They could use my insights in the industry and my behind the scenes experience and take their business from Best Kept Secret to well known brand simply by following my formula. Welcome to enable my business, the podcast. Hi Jess, welcome to the podcast.
Unknown Speaker 4:36
Hi, Liz. Thanks for having me.
Liz Nable 4:37
I think I said to you before we hit record how like I was a bit intimidated to have an AFI journalist on the podcast because you guys just feel like the be all and end all when it comes to you know, incredible media outlets. So thanks for agreeing to come on the show.
Speaker 2 4:52
Hey, not at all I'm stoked that your your clients might be reading the AFR.
Liz Nable 4:57
Yes, absolutely. So tell us a little bit about your journey to the AFR. And kind of what experience you've gotten and what role you played the AFR now.
Speaker 2 5:10
So I've been both I've been a business journalist, most of my adult life. I've had two stints at the AFR, I studied journalism, did a bit of economics and a bit of law, and got picked up by the AFR After trading stocks at uni. And I started covering covering economics and capital markets. So I got this really great sense of what the dollar is doing, what bond markets are, what the share market is. And I covered the ins and outs of that for about five years, and then basically saw the structural decline of media and was like, Oh, my God, I want to go out there and earn some money. So I went and joined a startup, which notwithstanding, it's not always the greatest way to try and earn some money. And when it's a content production, went into marketing, got a bit of an understanding of brand voices, how to develop a tone for a company, how to communicate with customers, how to build an organic funnel, so that customers could find, find the company sign up, develop a relationship with a brand. I did that and really enjoyed that for a couple of years. And I went overseas and sort of got hooked back into journalism. And I was writing for Dow Jones Newswires and the Wall Street Journal, and when I came back to Australia, I was freelancing for a while doing a bit of like crisis communications, like advising on companies that had done some done some really gnarly things that had to figure out what they miss out. Yeah, and also trying to convince people for who were in the midst of a media storm, how do you develop an authentic voice? How do you actually take ownership for stuff that mistakes that you might have made, and how to communicate with a journalist who is looking for an angle and who isn't always a friendly, I did that for a little while and then just got sucked back into the AFR. So I'm a technology reporter there now. So I look at things like I look at startups, I look at venture capital, I look at digital assets and crypto I look at ASX listed. Tech companies basically, if it's like can plug into a wall or use a software, I can figure out an angle. And it's been great over the last while because I've developed I write a lot of profile. They develop them long form trend stories that sort of try using people's everyday experience in the market to explain what's happening more broadly in the Australian economy. At the moment,
Liz Nable 7:30
wow, that is amazing. You obviously a smart cookie. Tell me a little bit about the kinds of stories so the AFR I think from you know, an outsider's perspective, and I'm thinking about our listeners who are small to medium business owners, you know, founders, co founders, etc. I know that I read the AFR when it comes up on my social media feeds, because it's targeting me for entrepreneurial things in business and, and I've really enjoyed those articles that I read. I might not traditionally be a reader of AFI, if it wasn't for those targeted sort of articles. What are the what's the readership like? And what sort of I mean, I know that's probably a very long winded answer to this question. But what sort of articles are you covering or looking for at the AFR? In terms of my audience here on the podcasts small to medium business owners and entrepreneurs?
Speaker 2 8:21
Yeah, so I think the financial review sort of split at the moment between two main audience types. The first is like the traditional investor, fund manager, I'm running a book of money, I need to make investment decisions about companies that I can put into my portfolio. I want to have inside information on those companies and, and stuff that's not necessarily disclosed to the ASX. Right. So that's the traditional AFR reader is somebody who is an investor who wants to have an informational edge to make more money. The other AFR reader is somebody who runs their own shop or wants to one day run their own business or who is an aspirational business owner. And they use the AFR to identify trends within the market. If you're trying to sell your business, what kind of private equity companies are circling around, and also how to manage staff how to work, work remotely, all of these sorts of like business tips and tricks, that's the other part of the AFR that tends to be really well read. So we've identified that there are basically everybody's trying to make money in one way or another, but they're either making money for themselves in their own business and wanting and managing other people or they're making straight up and down investment decisions based on the new cycle. Right.
Liz Nable 9:38
Awesome. That's actually a really great way to quantify those different kinds of relationships. So I guess for the majority of the listeners to the podcast, we're in that second group of business owners. What are the opportunities for someone like so it's very clear to me I guess, you know, we've we've covered a lot of we've had a lot of guests on the podcast. And inside the course, you know, from women's magazines and lifestyle magazines and those that come sort of naturally to me and knowing what opportunities could be there. AFR, not so much, because I do think traditionally, maybe it seems a little intimidating or a little highbrow, or maybe I'm not big enough or make enough revenue. But what kind of opportunities could be there for someone like me or all my listeners to to pitch to the AFI? What sort of angles? Are you looking for? What would be a? Hell yes. And what also would be a don't waste my time?
Speaker 2 10:32
Sure. I think it's probably easier to start with the dome with what is the journos time, just because you're a business and you exist does not make you a story, I think, identifying what a story is, is the most difficult thing for people inside a company to identify. And that's why people we have this whole layer of public relations. But I actually often don't think that PR do a terrific job of identifying the authentic yarn within a company. So if you've come out of used to be a doctor, and you found like some gap in the market, and so you've started like a new piece of software, that's like helping nurses and doctors do certain things are whatever your pathway from the hospital to business owner, that's a story. There's there's an element of narrative, even that there's some weird and wonderful things that would have come across your path, talk about that stuff, not just spruiking, the product that you've built, I think that's probably that's that the minute I see a pitch in my inbox, it's like, hey, this person has done a thing. And that in that gives them sort of an expert opinion on an industry that's valuable. We're like, oh, cool, I'll give this chick a call. And maybe she can help me understand what the deal is with the NDIS. And oh, by the way, your software is helping alleviate some of that burden. That's, that's a way to get into the financial review is to find a yarn. And the thing is a lot of the time and I can't stress this enough. If you feel like the story reflects badly on you, like maybe you went through several divorces, or something before you figured out how to build this kind of product, or this business that helps people stuff that might feel like the most uncomfortable, awkward thing is generally stuff that we want to know about. And I totally appreciate that Jen has got a terrible reputation for always wanting to focus on the negative and focus on like, the stuff that's uncomfortable and awkward. But I would really ask your listeners to like ask themselves, what's the news that you read? Like, you're not necessarily going to read a story about someone being like, Hey, I've invented divorce software that does this. I want to hear about how you did that. Why do you what brought you to this? What gives you the right to tell me how to whether or not I should buy this product? I think that's probably finding the story, even if it is uncomfortable, helps with authenticity, one for your own personal brand, but also helps get into the press because it's a yarn because it's a real thing that happened. And that's definitely the stuff that I would be looking for. I think also another thing is if you are an expert on something, developing a point of view, and just letting journos know that like commenting on the news cycle, so say, for example, what is the news story that's sort of going on? Right, Charlie to right, so let's say you've worked in medicine for a while. And you've seen that other surgeons are like, do other things like this, right? contacting a journalist, I mean, I would argue that you should contact a journal and be like, Hey, I know this other guy doing a thing. And I'll be a confidential source. And that's a new story. But I appreciate that. That's not the way to necessarily get coverage for a business. But developing points of view on an existing news story can often sort of shape you into an expert. And that is always very useful for journalists who are trying to get a handle on new angles and stuff. So if there is like a Charlie to story, and you've worked in hospitals before, I can be like, actually, I call up Liz, she used to work in hospitals. What do you think about this? Are you finding that your customers are now stressing out about this or something, and that's often a way to get included in news stories, as opposed to, you know, you being the news story, you sort of become part of the fabric of the news, which I definitely advocate as a useful tactic for getting coverage.
Liz Nable 14:25
I love that. And I love that it's really comforting to know that a big publication like the AFR, like I keep saying like an intimidating publication, like the AFR for the little guys like us, is still following the same kind of teachings that I teach, which is telling your story in a really authentic way. You know, no one wants to hear about a new diabetic drug for example, they want to hear about the person that it saved. They want to hear about their nine year old girl whose you know, life trajectory is now triple that what it was, you know, before she found this drug and Like you say, like telling those telling you learning how to tell your story in a really authentic way, including those down moments in your career or your experience is what makes that takes that reader on a journey with you. And I think, from a business point of view, they invest more in your product or your brand, psychologically, when they're reading that story, when they can identify points in your story where they felt like that, like those down moments, those hard times as well as the successes as well.
Speaker 2 15:34
Absolutely, I think I mean, case studies, it's the easiest way to get a journos attention is because we just want to talk to real people doing things like when it's somebody trying to flog a product or service or a business or something like my walls just go up and like, yeah, yeah, I get it, you want more sales, and I've got access to eyeballs like I get the trade so so find something to trade with. And that's usually find a customer find somebody who's prepared to who's got a gnarly story or something to tell that we can sort of like, link to the, to your business in some way.
Liz Nable 16:11
Yeah, so someone whose story is like the vehicle that you use to tell your brand, your brand is a part of that that vehicle, but it's not the goal of the story is to is to sell your brand or your your product or your service.
Speaker 2 16:25
And I think if you pitch that way, too hard, journos will just turn off. And unfortunately, there if you do engage public relations firms who go out there and try and source coverage for you by pitching different angles, if that, like different PR firms have different reputations, and often they are not great at finding the yarn within your company. So I would, I would actively, I would, I would recommend that you guys like reach directly out to reporters if you can, because getting an email from a founder is a lot more valuable than getting an email from a PR firm. acting on behalf of the founder, though I appreciate that, like, coverage at scale is different to make it difficult to manage when you're running a company. But building a relation ship with a journalist over time, directly is really valuable even. And I mean, you've mentioned that the AFR can be quite difficult to penetrate. I think I mean, the AFR as, as an organ that exists in this Australian business community, it serves two purposes, presumably for your audience. One is as a method as an organ of dissemination or like broadcasts so that your message can get out there that so you can become part of the news cycle. But the other thing about the AFR is, it's all about businesses being run well and badly. So if you become a reader of the AFR, and maybe this is a plug for you guys to get. But for reading, if you're reading the AFR, you're aware of how other people are making layoff decisions, or tax decisions, or you you sort of become aware that as a business owner, which I understand is very isolating or can be, you're actually a part of this huge, big community of other business owners trying to like keep the lights on. So the financial review is very much an organ about those stories of people, employing others trying to keep the economy taking over of which your audience or your clients definitely are part of particularly small business, small business is absolutely such a powerful force in the Australian economy. And people want to read about each other doing cool things or doing things that are novel in some way.
Liz Nable 18:34
So how would someone say for example, they've got a founder story, or they've got news to share about their business, and they want to pitch it to something like the AFR. What are some of the kind of golden nuggets of information they should be pulling out of those stories to create that head of that pitch? Because obviously, the head of that pitch is going to be different to how they would pitch the same ish story to a women's magazine, or, you know, general news and that sort of thing.
Speaker 2 19:04
I think the most important thing is why now like, why should we write about you guys, now what has happened now, if you've just closed a capital raise or done a transaction, that's a news event, if you have just done layoffs, but it's saved you X amount of money a year, that's the business story, I think, when I started at the AFR, it was who, what, when and you know, lose your agenda, like who, what, when, where, why. And the other thing with the AFR is how much so if you can get a big figure in there somewhere, like we've just raised this at this valuation, or we've just turned over a million bucks this year, or we've just done like if you can put a figure into the pitch that will definitely catching IFR journos attention. I think also, we have so much data and in our businesses or you guys have so much data and your businesses find some weird quirky market that like find out, did you know that if you're selling, you know, organic pet food or whatever, did you know that most of our customers are actually 45 year old men, or some peculiar thing that that piques the curiosity of a journal being? Well, what are they? Why, and you knew all of a sudden become the expert being like, well, actually, men on the Northern Beaches are a lonely bunch of bastards, and they've got so many animals and blah, blah, blah, you know, all of a sudden, that's a weird, quirky story, that that's just novel, I mean, that we're in the business of new stuff. So if you have an insight, and you can obviously work with public relations firms do this all the time, but like trying to interrogate the data that you have, in order to develop an insight, that's often another way to get coverage.
Liz Nable 20:49
Just tell me a little bit about what you know, as a journalist on the receiving end of you know, lots of PR pitches and and pitches directly from business owners. How important like authenticity is and and being genuine in in your in your story or your pitch.
Speaker 2 21:05
It's just the most every single day. journos a swimming through very polished language to get to the nub of what this person is all about, is this PR person dressing up a series of layoffs as a cost cutting measure that will benefit the business and therefore shareholders over time? Or has something internally gone really wrong with the business and that's why they're having to fire people like so. So the mind of the journalist is, I mean, we often get labelled as cynics, but most most of us just sceptics, like getting into what somebody is actually saying through shiny language is basically the name of the game, or that's, that's our job, right? So if you're trying to get through, I would argue get rid of as much polished language as you can be as authentic and real. And we have, you know, we have seen some gnarly things in our sector, they are this, we have seen some incredible growth numbers coming out of these regions, because of this, like trying to keep it your point of view and your voice very real. That tends to cut through, like I have this issue at the moment where like, I'm on so many public relations, publicity lists, like my email, where I get about 2000 emails a day like that. Yeah, it's so gnarly lists I've got to do, I've got to figure out some filter thing, but but the volume of PR, publicity communications, is it's unmanageable at the moment. So if to cut through that, you really have got to be like, Hey, I'm doing this, or I've just experienced this. And it's weird and wonderful for this reason. I think some of the issues with outsourcing a lot of that is you get these talking points. And they're sort of like very bland, you know, this person who is selling, you know, organic, wooden surfboards or whatever is, is selling all these surfboards to the good of the environment. You're like, Yeah, well, cool. Like that's like, cool. But what what is it about where to get the word from? Do you know what I mean? Like, find the couple of questions that make your story unique, or pointy or interesting. And I think also, and I mean, I would say this, but like, if you've had a torrid time of it, and you've just pulled this business out of the backwaters, or you've had 25 children, and you're managing a household, and you're managing a company, and you're doing all of these things, and you've like nearly had a breakdown or whatever, make your vise the virtue make your the worst part of the story or the thing that makes it interesting and novel, be brave enough to tell that story. Putting that inside, a PR machine often wipes out all of the good stuff. And yeah, it is uncomfortable to put yourself out there. And it is uncomfortable to talk about a journal, talk to a journal about how your business nearly went broke or whatever. But they're the stories that are actually helpful to readers. And if you remember that a report and we get this drummed into us all the time, like we we act on behalf of readers like we act and journalists more broadly, those that get into this industry, because of a feeling of vocation like you've got to kind of hold people to account we do that on behalf of society or our readership or other people. So if telling your story about coming out of the worst times of your life, it might be beneficial because you get coverage and therefore brand recognition, but it also helps people who are also running businesses make better decisions. And that means that's a rising tide lifts all boats.
Liz Nable 24:55
Yeah. What would you say? I couldn't agree with you more. I think that's such a great piece. have advice because two things, a lot of business owners think that that's negative PR to say they've done something wrong or their business is struggling or, you know, even I, during COVID got approached by, you know, several journalists that were in the fitness industry about our business. And I was like, Oh, do I really want to say how badly it's doing? Or does that open does that then people go? Well, they're a bunch of losers, no one's gonna come and like, you know, become a member or a client. But I think that authenticity is what draws people to your story and to your brand. Because that they see, they see they, what's the word that resonates with them, they see a part of themselves in you because everyone's felt struggle and defeat and failure.
Speaker 2 25:41
And I think I can tell you having covered ASX listed companies for so long, that when a CEO gets up on an analyst call, and let's say the market cap of this company is like a $500 million dollars a billion dollars or something and the CEO and gets up me like, right, we've done a series of trials. And we've launched all these new products. And we found that three of the four products we've launched are not working, we're going to not we're not going to do that anymore. We've decided to do our strategy, rejig, and this is what it is. Oftentimes, the stock will go up. Oftentimes investors react so much more positively to somebody calling out a failure for what it is, and then having a plan to fix it. That instead of them trying to dress it up as like, well actually, we've got this new like market opportunity over here. And we're not talking about this thing. It's the ones that actually call out the ugly darlings that and get a positive market response. And that's in the money markets. That's where people are so like ruthless with their capital. And I think the same thing applies at the smaller end of the market, when we're talking about brand authenticity and response to people owning mistakes, or errors or points of view that are uncomfortable. Because it does it. It just shows that you own things and that and that in and of itself, in my opinion, gives you gives you a heft or a might that might not be there if you're just trying to dress things up positively all the time.
Liz Nable 27:13
Yeah, I agree. So does someone need to be out of So say, for example, your business has almost gone broke, or you're in a difficult time or and you're looking for, you know, to build brand awareness will get that media exposure. So you're pitching someone like yourself? Do you need to be at a point where you're beyond the hard part, and you're looking like you're at the successful end? And you can look back and go, Oh, I nearly went broke. But look, we didn't know we're doing really well. Now. Well, can you pitch while you're in the thick of it? This is a question I'm asking on behalf of me, because I often think about this, you always hear those stories. But you hear them at the end when the person has been successful. And they can safely look back and go, Oh, we were on the edge. But look at us now. Can you pitch in the thick of it?
Speaker 2 27:54
I mean, I would I finish? I would argue Yeah, pitch in the middle of it. But I can definitely hear some communications advisers going. Don't do that. Because you know, all of a sudden a joke because like, let's say you're an employer of 50 people, the company's not doing well, you reach out to agenda being like, Oh, we've got to, we're having a bloody terrible time of it. And a disgruntled employee also reaches out to me, and all of a sudden, I'm talking to these two different sides of the story. I mean, the thing is, with journalism, and this is like, definitely, you know, lifting the lid on it is like, just because you've come to me, will spark me making more calls. And I think this is the other thing that good journalists do is they don't just take your word for it, they will start to figure out or they will start to talk to other people. And they'll talk to heaps of people. So if you Yeah, yeah, if you're in the middle of Yeah, that's right. If you're in the middle of a shitstorm, that's happening because of like government policy or something like you're getting locked out of a market, and it's going to send you bro, yeah, reach out to a journal in the middle of it and be like, our business won't survive if the government doesn't do X, Y, Zed, or if, yeah, the CBAS of the world don't do X, Y, Zed, or we can't get access to this technology or funding or whatever. Definitely reach out to Jonah. If you are, have seriously mismanaged something, and you want to tell that story. You just got to be careful, because yeah, the journey like like you said, before, there's the there, the journal will take the story and tell it the way that they see it. And it might not always be the way that you want it to be. And that's difficult for people. And that's why I definitely know that PRs are on the other end of, you know, angry companies being like, Oh, you told us that thing and be like, give us great coverage. And she's like, Well, you didn't tell me that you were $10 million in the hole like so there's just that you got to be wary because there are you know, there are good journalists out there and they will be trying to firm up information that is relevant to their readership, not to your ultimate goal, which is to sell more widgets. Yeah,
Liz Nable 30:04
yeah. Such a good point. One more question for you, at the AFR Are you looking for, I guess it's in, I always teach my students inside the course to pitch, make sure they do their research before they pitch. So make sure they understand the AFS from eyes, what sort of stories they print, perhaps you if they're looking to pitch you specifically what beat you cover and that sort of thing. How important is that, from your end, as a journalist at the AFI?
Speaker 2 30:34
It's like it is. So it is the most important bit like, don't pitch to a publication where you don't know what they publish, like, it just shows that it's such a grab, it's such a like, you guys have, you're on a list of publications, you guys have a massive audience, we want access to them. Here, let's write about, you'll probably want to write a story about coffee sales and wall and Gong. And it's like, why would I want to do that? Have you read anything that I've written before? And I mean, perhaps that's egocentric, but it's like, immediately just goes we'll get it's not a story. For me, that's just not even remotely interesting to either me or the editor who I ultimately bring these stories to me like, yeah, it should, should I be dedicating time to follow this up. Any other thing I'd like to say, just quickly, and this is this, if you want to develop a relationship with a journal, a good one, one that's doing investigations, it's finding yarns that are original, and, you know, not fed to them by public relations firms. But you would like to develop a relationship that perhaps in the future, you could leverage that for your own brand awareness or something, you don't need to talk shit about your business, but you can talk about your competitors reach out to a turnover, you find out that your competitor is doing something mad or crazy. And I there's definitely like ethical things that we all feel differently about talking about each other. And I get that, but I'm in the business of information. And if you've got information about market participants, that might be a way to steer conversation towards your industry towards the wooden surfboard trade, you know, which is all of a sudden importing blood teak from Myanmar or something like that, you know, so I don't know where that fits in your courses. But it is an effective way to get a journalist attention is to be like, my competitors are doing this. And it's terrible, don't you reckon?
Liz Nable 32:32
Yeah. Wow. 100% I mean, the journal in me agrees with you. 100%. I'm just finally you've obviously got so the law I suppose. I've just done another podcast recording with one of our donors inside the course who's in women's magazines. She said she gets about 300 emails a day, you're getting 2000 Which is insane. Go import like I guess it takes you like less than one nanosecond to delete emails that you can see you're wasting your time due to see that I
Speaker 2 33:03
also practice inbox zero. So I'm like you. Yeah, I'm declaring bankruptcy after the end of the week. So
Liz Nable 33:10
that's insane. So super important for that subject line to be right on par and the first like you're losing interest after the first sentence so you just hitting the light
Speaker 2 33:26
Yeah, I mean, it is the most important thing. It's the same with headlines. It's the same with grabbing people's attention in any way. I think
Liz Nable 33:34
like can you tell me straight away that someone doesn't know what you do
Speaker 2 33:37
with it? Absolutely. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, but like I said before, big number gets my attention. We've just sold the company for $10 million. My competitors just lost $5 million dollars in the pokies big number I've got yeah, I've got a story something crazy has happened to me. Helps. Data Point. Did you know that 50% of this is this? I'm always I'm just always skimming that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it I really can't advise totally on like how to get on top of someone's epochs. But I do think meeting agenda when you can is also like because it's the easiest way for me to do my job right is that if I find that you're a great source I want to come out meet you. I want to come and see your business. And once I know you you become my wooden surfboard expert did I mean like so those kinds of relationships as all business owners are practising in their very lives with their suppliers and things like that pressing the flesh is the main game and it's just such a hack. It's such a hack that if you can meet someone, shake their hand, have a drink, have a coffee, have a meal and and you just get that much closer. And I totally appreciate that's very hard to do. And obviously everyone knows that, right? So like, hey, we'd love to, you know, meet up for a coffee and have a cat, like the amount of firms that do that to us, when they don't even do business in Australia, like some communications firms from Singapore will be like, hey, we'll take you out for lunch and have a great time. And I'm like looking at their business that has, it employs two people in Australia and is listed in the Hang Seng in like Hong Kong or something. And I'm like, I'm back to freelance. I'm not that keen for the free lunch.
Liz Nable 35:32
So we're going to margaritas tonight, Ali, Jess,
Speaker 2 35:35
let's build that relationship. Sure, I'd love to know, that you're aware of.
Liz Nable 35:41
Um, my final question, and I do talk about the AFR quite a bit inside the course because I feel like it's a really great example of trust and credibility and, and brand. So the AFR, obviously take the trust, that their information is factually correct, and their credibility as a media brand very seriously. Would you say that's one of the and that's why I feel like information coming from AFR, to me is like Bible because you know that there's a team of journalists like yourself whose job it is all day, every day is to get to the real stories and to tell those factually correct, well researched. And that's why it's an important vehicle for business owners like me to successfully pitch around like that, how important would you say trust and credibility is they have?
Speaker 2 36:33
Well, it's just like, the, the greatest hack, I think to being an effective communicator is to never treat the person that you're speaking to or writing for, as an idiot. Just give everybody the respect that they can figure stuff out. The AFR reader is a discerning person they have, they might not necessarily be working in high finance and a fund manager, but they might be running a wooden surfboard business, and they have a brain. So speaking to people with respect, and ensuring that the information you give them is valuable, and you just don't waste their time. That's how we get subscribers. And that's how the AFR keeps the model ticking over. Having said all of that, we make mistakes, journalists or people, people lie to us people falsified documents, we call it sometimes prohibitive, so we can't actually get both sides of the story. There are heaps of reasons for why information goes out there that's inaccurate or, or might great with people's views of the world or their own politics and things like that. It is an organ of people, for the people I would argue. But it you are only as good as the quality of your information in our business. And so ensuring that things are factually correct, ensuring that this actually happened to somebody that this case study really did work in the hospital and did witness these things. Yeah, I mean that that is just becoming the valuable part of paying for news in a world where you could spit out a million SEO centric articles a second with chat, GBT, for instance, the original stuff that's produced by reporters who are out in the world talking to people, that's, that's a premium. That's a value. That's the thing that we have to protect. So the AFR is Yeah, it's like, it can be soup, like I can't remember what show was, but like, they used to make fun of the FR for having like the most boring headlines in the world. But sometimes the truth just is a bit. You know, this is actually what happened milk prices did this in a shocking twist, you know. So the AFR is just, it is probably moved on from being like just a, an organ of public record, we used to once upon a time just sort of have to faithfully report everything that was said on the ASX. That's not necessarily a value add to our readers. Now. It's the stories, it's the stuff that your clients are experiencing as participants in the economy, that they're the yarns that people come to us for. I think just before we finish up, I was just thinking before about the big numbers. A lot of times people in Australia particularly get really like camera shy about their own successes. So they often get really weird about like, we sold a business and we made $10 million out of it. And they don't want to like necessarily let other people know that all of a sudden they're in the money. I think often that is a real shame because a lot of the time we talk to them to capitalists or private equity who buy out these smaller companies and roll them up together and do things and and people make generational life changing money in those circumstances. But they won't tell us what they sold the company for and it just neuters the story, it just means that it has nothing to do totally. And I think that if you can just sort of sack up a bit and be like, Yeah, we made $5 million out of this. Like we're going to be able to pay off our Narrabeen house or whatever you know, like If you can put that out there. I mean, obviously, that's a self interested thing for me to say. But I just can't stress how useful it is for other people trying to do the same thing that you're doing. Try and just like, even if it feels like you're showing up, it's, it's just a story that lives on the internet. Don't worry about it, you know, like, that kind of authenticity, that kind of true. Gives the stories that we write more punch. And it just is way more helpful for other people for that for that group of AFR readers who are trying to use the newspaper as a tool to do better business. Yeah,
Liz Nable 40:33
I couldn't agree with you more. I live for six years in the States, and they just behave in a totally different way. Oh, yeah. We are so camera shy, like worried about what people will set, including myself, what people will think, you know, people think, you know, was easy, your overnight success. And this is the whole, when people jump into this course, I guess I'm assuming they've come to a point where they want to self promote, which is awesome. So I hope, you know, obviously, you're, you're you're coming into the course, as guest experts, I really hope that they listen to that advice, because it's so important to tell our failures and our successes as well, because everyone knows running your own business, no one is making $10 million overnight. This is not easy, in any way, shape, or form. So to celebrate those successes publicly is such a big deal. And for someone like many of the business owners, I know and myself included, it's great to see that exit strategy as well as possible for your business. What's it worth? What could it be worth? Is it a waste of time? Do venture capitalists want to buy something like what I'm creating? Or do I need to change
Speaker 2 41:37
the also And sorry to interrupt you is I think one of the other things dealing with bankers all the time like I do I deal with VC guys, private equity guys, I deal with investment bankers, who want to tell people what the price is they want their price to work out. If we can put something in the paper that signals that another business of your size sold for $5 million more than what they're offering you. It is such useful leverage. It's not useful leverage, though. Yeah, I'm a big fan of just sort of like shining a light on things lifting up lifting up the like matte and seeing all the cockroaches underneath because because like we were talking about perhaps before this call, like the thing is with finance and the AFR is very guilty of this is like lapsing into an impenetrable jargon, which only like rich people are dudes in suits, understand, which I just don't buy. I just don't think that just because you work at Macquarie Bank, and you like get your suits made in Hong Kong or whatever that you all of a sudden know things that a mom with three kids on the Northern Beaches couldn't understand. Like, she absolutely has the capacity to understand the same stuff. And that's why I really liked the job that I'm in because I speak that language, I speak that dude's language. And I want to bring that knowledge out and put it back into English so that you know, so that other people can use that information to make better decisions about your life. Because like everyone's got brains and everybody can understand this stuff. It just takes a bit of time and a bit of like an effort on behalf of the communicators, which in this case, is the journalists.
Liz Nable 43:10
Oh, I love that so much. Thank you so much, Jess, for your time today. It's been such an eye opener, made me feel much more comfortable for myself pitching AFR, but hopefully for everybody else out there listening. It's been such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Unknown Speaker 43:24
No worries. Thanks a lot for doing that doing the work that you're doing.
Liz Nable 43:28
I'm trying Thank you for listening to this episode of Nable My Business. If you've loved it, please share it on Instagram and Facebook for your friends. I'm all about listening and learning from you my audience. So please pop a review on iTunes and let me know how you're enjoying the show. I'd love to hear from you. So if you have any questions, email me at Liz at Liz Nable.com And if you want to know more about what I do, head over to Liz Nable.com I truly hope this podcast is a game changer for you. Whether you're a small business owner, a franchisee you have a side hustle or you're just starting out. This is where you truly begin to build your own empire and the life of your dreams.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
