Liz Nable 0:00
I think you'd be hard pressed to name a women's lifestyle publication, either print or digital that my guest on the podcast today hasn't worked on in her illustrious career. Allie Izzo is a journalist, freelance writer, editor, digital content strategist podcaster, and content creator and she's worked in the media for 20 years. Her specialty or special interest as she coins it is fashion, beauty and health. And she's worked on almost every women's magazine I've ever heard of. And now most recently, her newest role is head of Digital Strategy at our media. Starting in print at some of Australia's most well known and loved teen and young women's magazines, Clio and Dolly. Ali was soon tempted by the bright lights of the digital media world and joined Popsugar Australia, one of the first digital media outlets to really break into print territory at the time. From there, Ali worked at Elle cosmopolitan Harper's Bazaar Jones stellar and body and soul in hybrid roles, and also dipped her toes into the world of producing and hosting podcasts with healthy ish. As our media's new head of Digital Strategy. Ali now oversees iconic titles like the Australian women's weekly, Marie Claire, gourmet traveller, home beautiful and who. And guess what? Yep, Ali is one of the guest experts inside the August round of the Media Masters Academy. So get yourself a spot on the waitlist stat. So when the doors open next month, you'll get first dibs to access to live master classes with incredible journalists like Ali. Ali will cover all her inside tips and tricks for how to write a successful story pitch, the do's and don'ts of pitching women's publications, and the difference between digital and print pitching. Plus you can pitch her your own story ideas live during the masterclass and get her feedback in real time. In the meantime, sit back and relax and enjoy this episode with Ali Izzo. There's so many nuggets of gold. Hello, I'm Liz Nable. And you're listening to Nable My Business, The Podcast. When I first started in small business almost 10 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting into. You see my background was in the media. I had spent 15 years as a television news journalist and reporter working at several major networks in Australia. And then as a freelancer in the US and around the world. I spent years dividing my time between working long shifts on a news desk and travelling the world chasing stories. It was unpredictable and exciting. Until it wasn't anymore. I decided I wanted to live where I was in charge of what happened next. And where I was working to build my own empire, not someone else's. I also never wanted to work a midnight new shift again. And now I don't have to. There was a lot I had to learn about running my own business. But one thing I already had in the bag was how to get media coverage and free PR. I knew what the media wanted. I knew the secret formula for what made us and I knew how to leverage those organisations to build my business, get more exposure, and ultimately make more sales. During my decade of building my business, I have managed to get featured in almost every major news outlet in the country. I've been interviewed on television countless times, had personal profiles written up in women's magazines, done point of view pieces for large newspapers, and been listed in top 100 lists of women in business and in my industry. And I've never spent a single cent on PR. I took that knowledge for granted until it dawned on me one day that I could teach what I knew to other businesses, let them in on the secret. And they too could build their businesses, leveraging the media and gaining free PR. They could use my insights in the industry and my behind the scenes experience and take their business from Best Kept Secret to well known brand simply by following my formula. Welcome to Nable My Business, The Podcast. Hi, Ali, and welcome to the podcast.
Unknown Speaker 4:15
Hi, thanks for having me.
Liz Nable 4:17
Well, it's an absolute pleasure. I'm so excited you agreed to do this. And we're super excited to have you in the next round of the Media Masters Academy course. I'm your expertise. And I'm going to ask you a little bit about your experience sort of leading up until now. But the reason why we have been like fangirling you so much in the lead up to now is because of your experience in women's fashion and beauty magazines. So we're going to talk a bit a little bit about that later. But I would love for you to share with our listeners a bit about your experience as a journalist and in in the sort of media industry and what sort of brought you to now.
Speaker 2 4:17
Yeah, totally so I think I've been around. I've been around for a while. This isn't and age me but I've been in the industry for almost 20 years now I started, I started young, okay. But I started interning as many people do. And I was lucky enough to be interning in at Clio magazine rip, and was put into the fashion cupboard and sort of spent a week in a dark cupboard taping shoes and unpacking boxes. And I just fell in love with magazines, I had no idea that those jobs even existed. And so from there, I've sort of always been in, as you said, in women's titles in women's lifestyle, but more on the fashion and beauty end of things. So as the fashion editor Dolly for a while, which was incredible. I love that, after working in print for about five or six years, I sort of saw that digital was this new, exciting thing on the horizon. And that was a long time ago. That was 15 ish years ago. So I jumped into digital, I moved to Pop Sugar, which had only recently launched in Australia then which was a fantastic education in digital. And then from there, I've been at Harper's Bazaar, I've managed Harper's Elle, and Cosmo digital teams, which was fantastic. And most recently at Body and Soul, whereas the digital and beauty director, which was a really hybrid print and digital role, actually, which was fantastic. So yeah, lots of things.
Liz Nable 6:22
Wow. I think your CV sounds like it reads like every woman's dream like all those fashion magazines, Harper's Bazaar, Body and Soul. You freelanced for a while now you're covering off, Marie, Claire, and Elle and like, amazing. Yes, yes. So
Speaker 2 6:37
in my current role, now, I've recently started as the head of digital strategy and implementation, which is a bit of a mouthful at our media, which is fantastic, because it's where I started, actually, it's the same building that I started interning in 20 years ago. So our publishers, most of the big print magazines that are still in circulation. So Australian, women's weekly House and Garden, Marie Claire, elle. You know, there's, there's so many there, there's about 14 titles. So I'm overseeing the strategy there, which is really exciting. So keep me away.
Liz Nable 7:14
We could be talking for hours, if we went into every single one of those mastheads. It sounds like you're covering such an amazing array of mastheads. Talk to me a little bit about I know we've had a lot of feedback. In the past, I've had a lot of feedback in the past from students who are thinking about coming into the course, wanting someone like yourself in the course, because you know, they might have fashion, they might be fashion designers, or run a retail store or have beauty products and that sort of thing. Take me back to those days when it was really just print and how you might pitch your product or your service it to a women's beauty and fashion magazine how that worked.
Speaker 2 7:57
As a brand owner. Look, I think it back in the olden days, if things were a lot harder, because there was a lack of access, I think, to editors, and to the people who were creating the content in the magazines. So it was quite traditional on the fact that it was an interface with prs. And it was relationship based. That's changed a little bit now because of you know, the internet, it's just a lot easier to find out who works where and people can kind of contact you people contact me through various mediums, which I don't mind, whether it's Instagram or LinkedIn, or they find my email somewhere on the internet. I don't know, some people are able to find it, which is very creepy. But anyway, it does work from a work perspective sometimes. But I think it's it's all, you know, I think that a little bit of investigative work is required. And that stands true for now. And I think a lot of people don't realise that if you buy the magazine. So like, for example, this one, it's not an Amelia title, actually. So you know, if you go into the masthead, if you read the fine print, you will find the location of the officers, you will find an email address somewhere if you email that email address, they will if you're nice about and explain what you're doing, they'll pass on to the email of the person that you need to speak to. You really need to study this stuff if you want to get into a magazine. So you know it's it's this kind of like the masthead page like read the credits, read the gutter credits, read the tiny little print, find out where they are be a bit forensic stalk them send, spend some time writing a really nice human email. It doesn't sound like it's been spat out by a bot. Use names use their titles refer to the actual pages where you think your products would fit. If they've got sort of titles or you can refer to a page number or something like that. It shows that you've done your research and you know the titles that you're pitching to that automatically makes whoever even if it's the the EA or the You know, the the office Jr, who opens your email, if it sounds like a real legitimate pitch and you've put some time into it, they'll forward it on to the right person, then you have that conversation over email, which is, you know, 20 steps ahead. It's the same as what a PR would do. So I think people forget that. print magazines are like this information in here for brands who want exposure and for founders who want exposure. So get forensic and look at that masthead page and see what you can find out there.
Liz Nable 10:31
Yeah, and I think you know, back in the day, I don't know how old you are. And I'm not going to ask you. But I know when I started out as a journalist back in the day, you had, you did have access to that masthead, yes, in print. But then you had to go and call them or write them like a physical, like, handwritten letter and send it the magazine. So even though it's a lot, it feels a lot noisier out there in marketing and media, it is easier in so many ways to contact people, right?
Speaker 2 11:01
So much easier. You know, you can you can look at that masthead, you can figure out who puts together the pages where you think your products could feature. And you can search for them, like look for them on Instagram and send them again, a really polite, well researched, concise message, don't send them something that's too, you know, worth, they don't have time for that. But all you have to do is say Hi, this is who I am, I'd like to get in touch with you, you know, can I get your work email? Don't try to pitch them on their personal social channels. But you're gonna does that work? If not, then you can have a proper conversation with them. And in is usually as you say, there's a phone number as well, you can pick up the phone and call the office. And they'll probably be surprised that there's a phone. We'll be delighted actually. Definitely want to novelty.
Liz Nable 11:45
You right, when you pitch someone over Instagram, it's like ringing someone unannounced, you don't just launch into your pitch, you ask for permission. Is that right?
Speaker 2 11:55
I wouldn't say so. I think that's just common sense. I think it's showing a little bit of it's a little bit of etiquette, you're you're coming into their personal space, people seem to think that LinkedIn is free for all as well. Firstly, I don't I don't love that, because I just feel like it's a bit of an attack as well. But if you can just say hi, I'm so and so from this brand. I you know, like your work, or I saw this thing that you did or what just make reference to the fact that you know who that person is and what they what they do. And then say, can I get? I'd love to pitch to you. Can I please get your work? Email address? Yep. Most people are gonna say
Liz Nable 12:32
yes, sure, of course. And it's so interesting, because so many of the founders that I speak to are so fearful to just ask the question, you know, more often than not, you will get a reply to a question like that.
Speaker 2 12:45
Yeah, if it's if it's concise, if you're not annoying someone if you're being polite, like a journalist, like knowing about new things, like your, you know, you're pitching to someone who is their job is to know about new things. Usually, if it's if you're looking for coverage within a magazine or an online title, you're helping them in a weird way. So I would, I would never be, I always welcome it personally, I always think, oh, this could be, you know, really helpful to my audience or my readers. And you know, it's lovely to talk to the people behind the brand directly. Sometimes it's, you get a more authentic take on what they do, versus going through a traditional PR term. Yeah.
Liz Nable 13:23
What about? So going back to the women's fashion and beauty specifically, I guess, because we haven't really delved into this in a podcast episode before? How would I mean, I guess it's a little bit different now. Because, you know, it's not just print, it's digital as well. But if you're if you're pitching a product, are you just sending them product? are you pitching a service differently? Like, how does that differ? And how would you advise someone you know, in that industry, who's looking for features in women's magazines to get, you know, what's their best chance of success?
Speaker 2 13:58
Yeah, totally. I look, this is tricky, because it depends on a multitude of things. And I think you have to sort of sit down and be a bit strategic before you start randomly sending out products or like sending out 1000 emails as well. So you probably need to figure out who are you targeting? Who's the title? And who's the journalist or the editor that you're actually wanting to talk to? Who do you think and again, look at who puts together the pages or look at, you know, what they're writing online and sort of get a vibe like, are they really into natural skincare, or maybe they're, they love a fashion retail trend, and they like lots of facts and numbers, and it's like the business of fashion. So like, formulate, make sure that you're sending the right stories to the right people and, and do a bit of research before you start off because that will, you know, in hugely enchant, increase the chances of them picking it up. If they feel like it's the right thing that they actually would write about is there's no point in sending a fashion story to a beauty editor, you know, that kind of stuff that just a basic level of research, I'd say would be the first thing and then the second thing would be to find out your unique angle or your unique story, what separates your brand or your founder story or your product from everything else that's on the market, and then focusing on that, and make it as concise as possible. I can't stress enough, especially for online journalists and editors, they are stretched, they have been flooded by PRs and brands all the time. You know, inboxes, I would, I used to regularly receive over 100 emails a day, probably more like 300, actually, and you just can't, you can't I could spend my whole day just responding to emails, and I wouldn't actually do my job, I will never write anything or edit anything or do anything. So it is really hard to cut through that. I think that once you have your you've formulated like why you think your product or your brand is interesting and different? Why it's newsworthy. And this is a whole other thing, you need to look at the zeitgeist, you need to look at the news cycle, you need to be like, how is this timely? Now? How might that audience for that title? respond to this? You know, like, if you're pitching to Australian, women's weekly, it's going to be very different to if you're pitching to Elle, you know, talking about a digital only quite fashion obsessed, like, guys do Gen Z consumer versus, you know, an older woman probably who's into interiors, or, you know, and, and, and baking, right? Like, you've got to think about the audience, because the journalist always thinks about the audience, the best thing that I would say is that if you are sending an email, the clearest, I think this is super helpful for journalists anyway, if you can distil your pitch into a subject line, and in your email, and that in that subject line could be a headline on their magazine or on their website, you've done half the work for the journalist, because it often you get a lot of press releases and pitches and the journalist and has to be like, Yeah, that's interesting. How am I turning that into a story? Yeah, do that for them. Give it an example. Like, it's a suggestion, they obviously don't have to take it. But you could be like, you know, formulate your subject line, like you're writing a story for that brand or that masthead. And that automatically makes it easy for the judge to be like, oh, yeah, I could see that sitting on our website, or that sitting on it as a news article within an upfront page or whatever it might be. You know, yeah. So if you do that, a little bit of legwork, you're going to not be deleted, in the first hour of like, receiving some type call, you just have to delete. And I used to never do that. And then I just got really burned out, I had to stop responding to the emails, because it's just not humanly possible. But you know, if you're, if you're showing that you've done a bit of care, you've done your research. And as I said, Don't spam everyone, don't try to do this for 1000 people, but you know, pick 10 titles, that would be your dream, and then spend a little bit of time and change each one. And, you know, journalists can tell like, if you've tailored it for them, if you've taken the time to read their work, even just glance over the headlines that they've written, it will get you a lot further, like, you know, get that foot in the door, for sure.
Liz Nable 18:04
Now, I know, like, as a journalist talking to a journal, I have former journalist, I should say talk to journalists, for all of us. A lot of these comes really, this is how we think, right? When I'm consuming media. I'm thinking like a journalist, I'm not thinking like a consumer, for the most part, unless I'm shopping online or whatever. But I know a lot of the students in the course, or potential students or listeners who are time poor business owners are like, Well, how would I know how to like that sounds like a massive job and they get overwhelmed. Yeah. What's the key like, if they were to pick one thing to focus on? Now, this is obviously what I teach them in the course that it's actually not, you don't need to be an expert. You don't need to be a PR person to pitch successfully, if anything, you know, your business or product better than anyone. But what would be the one thing that you would say, if they're feeling overwhelmed, this is a massive job. I don't know if I've got time for it. I don't know if it's worth it, that they could focus on to get, you know, to have the most successful to pitch a, you know, a winning pitch.
Speaker 2 19:06
Yeah, I think, look, this is maybe it's hard to say one thing, because the level of tailoring that it's required for each pitch, I think so the number one thing is tailoring which anyone can do that, right. But I think if you're going to think about overall things across the board that everyone should be aware of, I think the number one thing to not do is to think about your brand as the brand owner and I get a lot of pitches where I'm like, this brand owner is really passionate, and they really believe in what they're saying. But they're thinking about it like the CEO or the founder. The audience, my audience and the general public does not care that you have changed your packaging from pink to blue. Yeah. Okay. That's boring. No one is reading that. It's not a new story. It's not a headline. It's not an interest. That's a big deal for the brand founder for sure I get it, but like it's a you just wasted your shot like I I'm I deleted that email, you know what I mean? Because you've shown that you can't be empathetic to my audience and the journalist is always trying to serve their audience. So the number one thing is, don't think like a brand founder don't think about you, and what's exciting for your company. Think about what does your company do for the people, the populace that rate the people who might buy your bread, but who also might read my magazine or my online title?
Liz Nable 20:26
And I think the key and that's great advice, that is awesome advice. Because this is where I feel like you can really break it down and make it simple for any business owner or founder to pitch someone like you, is for them to start consuming the media where they know their audiences. And if you are a really passionate business owner, you're probably already doing that anyway.
Speaker 2 20:50
Yeah, totally. Yeah, most business owners know their audience inside out, you know, they know their customers really well, they can they can give them a name and say, when leaving what sort of coffee? Or do they have, you know, like, so extend that into their immediate consumption to? Absolutely,
Liz Nable 21:06
and thinking about where their audience could be, or would be, and what their audience wants, which is, like you say, their audience doesn't care about whether they've changed the colour of their packaging. But by consuming that media, and I don't, I mean, correct me if you think I'm wrong here, but say, for example, you think your audiences with Australian women's weekly, you might have a target market within your audience that read Australian women's weekly, and that's not really your jam. And I feel like you can get an idea of the formula of women's weekly just by reading the last three or four issues. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2 21:41
Oh, absolutely. That's actually your first stop is like, if you think that that's the title go in most most magazines, I would say all magazines, have an online presence of some sort, get on their social media, scroll through their Instagram feed, look at their Facebook page, look at you know, their homepage of their website, look at some of the most recent articles they've published, you'll get a vibe for what they publish and what they don't, especially online. I mean, obviously, go out and buy the magazine too. That way, you get the masthead, you get all that detail. You know, you've got to do your research. As I said, you don't have to do for every title in Australia, that's really hard and time consuming. And I think that knowing what you're pitching is, is going to separate you from you know, the great clash of pictures that most journalists receive. Yeah, I mean, the only other thing I'd add to that in terms of one thing that you should do is also try to think about it. And this is this is hard, because this is a journalist job. It's not a PR job. I mean, it is good PR, they're really good at this stuff. But be tapped into the new cycle be tapped into, again, think about your customer and like, what TV shows are they watching? Or like, what movies? Are they excited to see? Or where are they going on holidays? And if you can think I could tie it into something that is happening now. Again, that's that thing about writing that subject line, the headline, like if you can tie it into I know all of my customers are currently sitting on a beach in Mykonos having a great Euro summer. Like maybe there's a really tiny, me. I'm here, my tarot deck, here I am. Yeah, totally. Or, you know, maybe it's something about the Barbie movies coming out, maybe there's a Barbie or tie in or like, you know, I don't know, you've got to be connected a little bit. And, you know, a lot of brands simply just say, we're an amazing brand. We were started in Australia, we've got this great backstory, put us on the cover. And it's sort of like, that's, that's not PR. Marketing is different marketing is your brand messaging. PR is very different to marketing. I think a lot of people, even people who work in PR and marketing sometimes I still have to say that's a brand message. And that is an ad that you need to pay for. Because that is something that editorially, I'm going to cover. You need it for that it's advertising or its marketing that belongs on your own channels. You're so yeah, not my social media. Yeah. Where you can make it relevant to my audience is where it's PR and then it's editorial,
Liz Nable 24:12
you know, and I think you make a great point. Because like you say, there's, there's some people who do PR companies who do PR really well. And there's others who who don't do it so well. So you don't necessarily need a PR company. And it's the whole point of the course I guess is is understanding what PR is and not just paying for PR for the sake of it. Because often, if you can get a basic understanding of how this works, you can do those pictures yourself.
Speaker 2 24:41
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't think journalists don't have they're not going to not talk to someone because it's not a PR person. You know, like, as I said, journalists are curious so if they if you've got a story if you've got something that will help them they'll something they'll learn something new about a new launch or a new product, something new In the market, something different, something funny, something entertaining, something that the audience are obsessed with already, they're gonna want to hear from you. It doesn't have to come from a PR agency. There are amazing PR agencies out there who do wonderful things, but I don't think it's a, it's a necessary step to getting coverage.
Liz Nable 25:17
No. And it's good to get that basic understanding of how that PR and media cycle works anyway, so that when you do employ, or if you have an opportunity to employ, you know, a company for a season or PR company for campaign or something, that you understand what good looks like, and it's not just you paying a lot of money for PR, that sounds really average job.
Unknown Speaker 25:39
Absolutely. Yeah.
Liz Nable 25:40
Can you tell me a little bit about the difference between because you've worked across a lot of different magazines, you don't need to go into a huge amount of detail here. But in terms of like, if someone's pitching Harper's Bazaar, how that might, you know, be different to pitching body and soul? Like maybe just give me a couple of or give us a couple of comparisons of just top line of how that might be different? And in essence, is it really that different? Or is it more just knowing those different media outlets and what they're looking for?
Speaker 2 26:10
Look, I don't a good pitch is a good pitch. I don't think it's vastly different. I think the product or the story might have to be different because those audiences are really different. There are some stories that everyone in the country will pick up occasionally for sure. Again, I think it comes back to tailoring it and making sure that's the right kind of angle for each publication. Body and Soul is the mass title. So it's part of it's in a newspaper insert. It's on every news agency every Sunday, like it's it's the whole of Australia, but its health and wellness focus. So it's sort of like broad, but really niche in terms of the topic. Harper's Bazaar is a luxury fashion title. So you're talking to a very different demographic of people, again, you know, your customer, so just apply that to your audience. So how are you going to message it, it might be the same product, and it might be relevant to both it might be a really beautiful body moisturiser, probably relevant to both titles, in which case, as long as you're changing that subject line and your email a little bit so that you shown that you know how Harper's Bazaar covers beauty and you know how Body and Soul covers beauty, you might go with a I don't know, like, holistic body care, sort of angle for body and soul. But you might go for luxury essentials or, you know, you might talk about a celebrity endorsement for Harper's Bazaar potentially. And look, both could be right, like there's no wrong answer here. I don't think I think that I think it's more about the format of the pitch, then, you know, fashion titles like it one way and interiors titles like it this way? I don't think so. I think we're all generalist, I think we just need to be concise, to the point tailored for that audience. And then there's some other basic things with pitching that I think like, you know, tell me the who, what, when, where, and why, you know, basic things like that. Who are you? Where are you based? How much does it cost? What's the news angle? Where can I get it, give me a picture, I just need a small pitch, I don't need a high res pitch is gonna like crash my 1990s laptop. And elite like putting links, I want to see your website, I want to see your Instagram, but don't make it 3000 words, you know, do that and follow that template for anything like, you know, that's, that's as good as to get.
Liz Nable 28:29
Yeah. And I think if you you know, like I said before, like we said before, if you look at body and soul over a few weeks, you'll see what might I would notice and I don't read body and soul religiously, but I think I know from seeing it over the years is a lot of it is DIY stuff, and stuff people can do at home that appeals to the masses. And or, you know, it's a bit more general than something like Harper's, which you said is very specific, it might be in a gift guide or, you know, like so it's, it's very, you don't have to be like an expert in PR and media to start to see a formula in what that different magazine or media outlet is printing or taking notice of it's really just looking for a pattern in in what they do and what kinds of people are they featuring what how much of the products that they feature. It's all you know, it might be, you know, really high end products and you wonder if your product has a base product that it's probably not the right one to pitch. It's quite simple if you're just looking for that pattern, right?
Speaker 2 29:27
Absolutely. Yeah, I don't think you need to get forensic about it. I think you probably just need to look at either the past like couple of issues or go go online like it's free and you can just scroll and you can kind of see within a couple of minutes. So like are they don't cover brand founder stories, you know, for example, that's a big one in the beauty space. Everyone wants a story about their brand, you know, origin story or whatever. And it's not to say that that story isn't interesting. It's not good, but often, especially on a digital title it just Isn't traffic. And when you've got journalists who have like five deadlines a day, and they're under massive, you know, pressure to get the clicks and to get the eyeballs and to engage their audience, they're not going to do a story that isn't going to traffic. So you've got to look at what they're publishing, because what they're publishing is working for them. Yeah, you know, and then see how you could maybe fit into one of those stories. And maybe you're not the whole story, you know, that a brand might be a part of a larger trend story. And that's a really smart way to pitch to a journalist, because we love trends, because we like there's a pattern here, we're putting things together. And then we feel like we're, you know, be Vietnam strategic with the content for the audience. So if you can say, oh, we'll our friend does this, but there's also these other three brands that do something kind of similar, but it together at least you get mentioned rather than night. Yeah,
Liz Nable 30:47
that was gonna be my last question for you. So if someone's sort of on the right track, like you say, they pitch their founders story. And you know, how, how, how much chance have they got a view going? That's actually, that's a great start, but let's just tweak it here and tweak it, they're like, do you give people feedback and go back? And, and, and help them kind of curate the story or say to them, that's great. But we'll pop you in with three or four other founders? Or how does that work? Or is it just a flat out? Yes, or no? Yes or no?
Speaker 2 31:18
I mean, it depends. It's hard question, I'd say I don't, I don't have time to give feedback on pictures. If it's just me a brand story, I'm just gonna be like, Sorry, we don't do this next, by sometimes I don't even respond, because I've got three hours to get through that day, I've got deadlines myself. And that's not my job. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes I glanced at it, and I'll file it. And I often go back to things and like, oh, I need a beauty brand who does organic skincare with Australian botanicals as the key ingredient. And I will find it and I might email them proactively, they're like, I would need a quote from you. Because you're an expert in this field, because I'm doing this larger story like that. I mean, brand founders can be really helpful in that way, they may not get a founder story, but they could provide expert quotes, if especially their qualifications in their field. You know, body and soul, for example, is really, really reliant in a good way on experts, because it's in the health space. You know, they always, you know, when I was there, we'd always go to a doctor, we'd always go to someone within an actual qualification and exactly what we're talking about, because journalists can't talk about health conditions, obviously, we can write about, but we're not to give advice. So if you're an expert, that's your way in say, I would love to provide expert comment on this thing, which I can speak to because I did a PhD in it, you don't need a PhD, even if you're brand founder, you can still speak with authority, because you've obviously created a product or you've created a company. But by and large, I don't really give feedback on pictures, it's either file for later Good to know. And I just mentally go, I scan it, scan it and go cool. And then I forget about it and get on with my day, where I deleted if it's completely off brand, and I'm like, I'm never going to need this. This person obviously has no idea who I am or what I do, delete. Or if it's good, and I can see a story in there. I might go back and be like, yeah, what you've pitched isn't interesting to meet. But I'm actually want to do something like this. And then I might ask for retail stats, you know, like, tell me how much something is whitelisted? Or tell me how about the consumer demand for this particular thing that you created? Or, you know, tell me about, like, the good thing about brand founders is they have access to all that data. And now there's a journalist sometimes that's what you need to prove a story if you're trying to say everyone's obsessed with botanical ingredients in skincare, I'll just keep using that example. But if they can say every single one of our retail is sold out, and we can't get enough of this one particular product because everyone loves it this ingredient or something like that, I don't know. That's a that's a good thing for me is just to be like, Oh, this demand Yeah, people Australia are into this thing. And I've got somebody who can qualify that with some sales data or whatever. So yeah, think about more than just the brand story as a brand fan, think about what expertise what quotes and and guidance as a as a, you know, an expert in your field that you can give or sales data, research data, consumer data. consumer trends are always a good place. If you're talking about a trending story in fashion, this stuff is great as well. Retail trends and what consumers are buying or not buying is sometimes the hook of a story. As a journalist, you need a news hook, something to tether it to the here and now. And that data those numbers are really helpful. So, you know, always rely on that say we've seen a 600% uplift in you know, pre orders for pink since you know the Barbie movies for great, amazing, I can use that in my story. Fantastic. Thank you so much. You know, it may not be the whole story, but it will be part of me telling a story about a trend. So yeah, there's often they found brand founders often have more assets at their disposal than they think, you know, you don't need a beautiful press kit and you know, spend a lot of money with a PR agency. But you do need to know your own data, I guess. Yeah.
Liz Nable 35:23
Yeah. And know that what's relevant now. So you know, in a nutshell, I guess, no, your know, your journalist know what they cover and, you know, show knowledge that you have consumed some of the media that they've created or put out, keep it short and snappy, and you don't have a news hook. So it's not about you. It's not a promotion. It's not like a paid ad, it needs to have you need to be telling a story. And would you say, when someone's pitching you, they've got one chance?
Speaker 2 35:56
No, no, I wouldn't say that. That's a bit harsh. No, I don't think so. And I mean, I would say don't stop people, like, don't get their mobile number and call them every day, because it's not nice. And that does happen to be honest. Yeah, PRs do that. Sometimes, you know, like, I didn't respond for a reason. I'm sorry, but I'm just not. It's not. It's not. Yeah. So don't do that. But, um, you know, I'd say that, no, you've definitely got another shot. You can I think you can follow up in like three or four days, and you can like read, send your original email and say, hi, just touching base wondering if you bring this to the top of your inbox. Yeah, that's a good way to do it. Because you like each wave down, it's like four pages down by now. So it might just be a case of I just didn't get to it. But it gives the chance to like, relook at that. And if not, then like, give it you know, a week or two and then pitch something differently and be like, I, this one may have not been right, I get it. I was thinking perhaps x y Zed, you know, you know, tenacity is a good thing. And no one's going to be, you know, angry or annoyed. They're not going to not cover you unless you get into like spam territory.
Liz Nable 37:06
But rejection is par for the course I think, not yet expect, you know, that to be the journalist sole focus in the days not to return your
Speaker 2 37:15
The other thing I just say is that, you know, sometimes I'm just arguing with myself here, but sometimes it is about a brand story and is the founder story, but that depends on your title. So there are some mastheads out there, you know, I know news.com or even kidspot.com, or, you know, there's other titles, and they love a you know, like Ozzie mom builds a $10 million business story. And they love your audience loves that, because it's really inspiring. But they do that that's part of their stick, it might be a vertical might be a business vertical within a master, make sure you're pitching to the right person. Like, if that's if that's the story you want to tell. Great, but go after the business guys on news.com. Danny don't hit up the body and soul beauty editor because she's not going to publish that. So I think that it's not to say, yeah, you can you can pitch a business story or a founder story or brand story, but just make sure you're putting it into a masthead that likes that. And that audience likes it. And they've done it in the past. You know, even you could even reference a prostitute say, I saw that you featured or showcase this person from this brand. I thought it was a really beautiful way you did it. All right. You don't have to compliment you. You just say I saw this, wondering if perhaps this might work for you, too, you know. And then you know that it's something that they do. A lot of women's lifestyle titles don't usually do. Do it as a main thing, because it's it's more of a business story, I guess, rather than a lifestyle story. Yeah,
Liz Nable 38:46
yeah. Yeah. So super important to understand your the media or the journalist that you're pitching. I guess that's the crux of the lesson here. You're sort of halfway there. Maybe not halfway. I don't know what I want to quantify it. But you've got a much better chance if you understand who you are pitching, who their audiences and what that audience wants to consume?
Speaker 2 39:08
Absolutely. And if you know your consumer, you're probably going to know that or, you know, it's not that far late. You probably know more than you think you do honestly. So I think that's definitely..
Liz Nable 39:23
We are really excited. I feel like we could talk about this. I could go through every single place you've ever worked at and asked for pitching. But we'll do that inside the course. We're really looking forward to having you inside the course. You obviously have so much wisdom and knowledge to share. Thank you so much for today. This is amazing. I feel like my head is spinning with all the questions I have for you. But I I won't go on and on. Thanks, Ali for your time and we will see you in September inside the course.
Unknown Speaker 39:51
Beautiful can't wait!
Liz Nable 39:52
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Nable My Business. If you've loved it, please share it on Instagram and Facebook for your friends. I'm all about listening and learning from you, my audience. So please pop a review on iTunes and let me know how you're enjoying the show. I'd love to hear from you. So if you have any questions, email me at Liz at Liz Nable dot com And if you want to know more about what I do, head over to Liz Nable.com I truly hope this podcast is a game changer for you. Whether you're a small business owner, franchisee you have a side hustle or you're just starting out. This is where you truly begin to build your own empire and the life of your dreams.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
