Liz Nable 0:00
You've probably already heard of my guest on the podcast today. She's got almost 100,000 followers on social media, has written four best selling books, created a super successful personal brand around money mindset, and made $25 million in her business in the last decade. As a result, Denise Duffield, Thomas, or DDT, as many of her followers have nicknamed her, is the money mentor for the new wave of online entrepreneurs who want to make money and change the world. Denise's incredible business trajectory tells me two things. Firstly, there's a huge demand for what she does, and secondly, she must serve her clients really, really well, because they keep coming back over and over and over again. The catalyst for Denise and I meeting was purely coincidental. I recently heard her speak at a conference on the Gold Coast, and it was her story. Sometimes I call this brand story or back story, that really struck me. It was the perfect blend of honesty, altruism, inspiration, motivation, success and failure. When she shared her story on stage, which I'm sure she's probably done at this point in her career, 1000s of times, you could hear a pin drop. Everyone was captivated by her journey. It's the kind of story I imagine that never gets old, and exactly how I teach my students inside my program, the media masters Academy, to share their stories, to take the audience on a journey, to inspire emotion, take action and influence. So what did I do? I bravely asked her to be my next guest on the podcast, and she said, Yes, as you'll soon discover for yourself, despite her crazy success, Denise is genuinely human. So while we do talk brand story quite a bit, we also dive into how she found the courage to nail her niche, her strategy and purposeful positioning of her area, the expertise and the Holy Grail for most women in business, learning to give less F's about what people think and doing it anyway. Hello and welcome to medium magnet, the podcast for female founders and women owned businesses, startups and side hustlers who want to learn how to grow their business, leveraging the media and free PR, I'm Liz nable, and I'm your host, personal publicist. PR, strategist and dedicated hype woman. My goal with this show is to give you a behind the scenes tour of how the media works, to break down the barriers between your business and the big mastheads, so you can see how easy it is to get featured simply by giving journalists what they want. At media magnet, you'll also get access to the top journals, editors, writers and PR people in your industry and beyond, sharing their secrets and expertise on the how, why, what and when of pitching and getting featured in the media consistently, I will share with you how to build your reputation as an industry expert so successfully, the media will be knocking down your door. When I first started in small business, 12 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting into. I had spent 15 years as a television news reporter working at several major networks in Australia, and then as a freelancer in the US and around the world. I spent years dividing my time between working long shifts on a news desk and traveling the world chasing stories. It was unpredictable and exciting until it wasn't anymore. I decided I wanted a life where I was in charge of what happened next and where I was working to build my own empire, not someone else's. There was a lot I had to learn about running my own business, but getting media and great free PR was not one of them. I already knew what the media wanted. I knew the secret formula for what made news, and I knew how to leverage those media outlets to build my business, get more exposure and ultimately make more sales. I was featured in every major media outlet in the country, and I never spent a single cent on PR. I took that knowledge for granted until it dawned on me one day that I could teach what I knew to other businesses, let them in on the secret, and they too could build their brands with organic media and PR. Let me help you take your brand from Best Kept Secret to household name. This is media magnet, the podcast, and I'm pretty pumped to have you here. You Music.
Welcome. Denise, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show.
Denise Duffield-Thomas 4:50
Thanks. Liz, it was so nice to meet you, not not that long ago on the Gold Coast. I
Liz Nable 4:54
know, well, I've, I
Unknown Speaker 4:55
know a little bit about
Liz Nable 4:56
you, obviously, like I've, you know, I've followed you on Instagram for a while. I've had friends who are in your courses. I really admire what you do, and I've you know, it was when I heard you speak on stage at that conference on the Gold Coast a few weeks ago that it really resonated with me how your story and how powerful your story is, and how sharing your story really serves you and what you do in your business. So today's episode, as you know, is all about, like the power of sharing your story, and how to do that in a really authentic way. So I guess to start, the natural place to start would be to for anyone who doesn't know your story, or doesn't know who you are, for you to tell us a little bit about what you do and kind of how your story, where your story starts from and how it kind of brings you into
Speaker 1 5:42
today. Yeah, sure. So I am known as a money mindset mentor, and it's a totally made up term. Basically, I help entrepreneurs, mostly entrepreneurs and mostly women, but not exclusively to deal with the money Gremlins and the fears and the self doubts that we have around money. To be honest, I could have really gone into a lot of different topics. And I actually even had finding your soulmate course a couple of years ago, which was almost exactly the same kind of stuff, dealing with our fears and insecurities and our doubts and our deservingness. And I do that through courses and books. Even though I am Australian, I'm based in Australia, I help people all over the world, and mostly America and the UK, to really not out some of their stories around money, and in turn, that helps them to charge well for what they do, to not be scared of asking for money, and all of those things that honestly impacts women more than, yeah, more than men, mostly. And the way I came to that, actually, it depends on how far you want to go back, but I always knew from a young age that I really wanted to help people. And I think that is being kind of a 90s kid watching Oprah after school. I feel like she really ignited in me this desire to help people and to do it through my voice, and I got really into reading personal development books and things like that. So that was there that I think would have happened no matter how I grew up, just that desire to learn and and to change, because I see that in my kids, and they grew up very differently. To me, how I grew up, though that adds a little flavor. On top is that my mom was 17 when she had me. She never had any money. She had a lot of, you know, horrible relationships. We were in a lot of dv situations. We lived in housing commission for a while. And I feel like, even though my mom is, you know, she's a very strong, independent woman, the time that she grew up in and the time that my grandmother grew up in didn't allow them to use their talents and to make money. And I could see how a lack of money, literally a lack of money contributed to a lot of the situations that we're in, and a lot a lot of power, you know, economic power. And so I remember at a young age, like having a really strong desire. I don't want to be reliant on anyone else. I want to make my own money, and I want to be independent. So I think that, combined with the Oprah stuff, just ignited this, you know, desire in me that I was going to do something, it wasn't going to be money. I really didn't, because I didn't, I didn't know anything about money either, you know, growing up on the Central Coast, I didn't know anything about money, but it was just more. I just wanted to, like, motivate people, you know, and I didn't, I didn't know that was a job besides being Oprah, yeah, that's it. Really, I knew I didn't want to be on TV. And, you know, I had friends who went that route. I was a performer. I didn't know what it was going to be. I just knew that, you know, I would read a book and then, or I would listen to Oprah, and then I'd tell my friends about it, yeah, the next day at school. Yeah, that's so that's kind of those two things came together, right time, right place. I think
Liz Nable 9:00
I find your story really interesting for lots of reasons, and I'm probably the same as a lot of people who are who are listening to your story from the outside, and one is because you've built your reputation as a money mindset coach, but you're not in you're not from a money background. You don't you're not an accountant or a financial advisor or and I have so many students inside my course, I guess, to use your language who feel blocked by that so they can't share their story, because they don't feel like an expert, because they don't have qualifications. Now, obviously it's different if you are giving people medical advice and you're not a doctor. Tell me a little bit about how. I've got so many questions for you. So first of all, like, how did, how did that come about? Did you always know that you needed to share that story to give context to what you do? Has it always been something you've shared? And how have you sort of interwoven your experience with the way you teach people about money to, I guess, to grow your business, but also to. To maintain your reputation and your rep, you know, your credibility in the industry.
Speaker 1 10:06
No, and I actually probably didn't talk about it too much at the start. I feel like I kind of went into it with a very naive like, let me tell you about dream boards, and let's talk about goal setting. You know, just that kind of happy go lucky, kind of that energy that I was as a kid, where I was like, I heard about this thing, you know, let's learn about this thing together. And I remember very clearly one of my friends from school. Her parents were both teachers at our school, and some of those parents who came from Nice, middle class kind of backgrounds, they would always look at me a little bit warily, because they'd be like, you know, you come from Housing Commission, you've got a single parent, you're a bit scruffy. And I was just, I was literally the nerdiest kid in that way. I never got into drugs or anything. I was just like, Can I share this dream board with you, or let's write our goals down, or something like that. And so I it's not like I was hiding that part of my life when I started my business, but it just wasn't the driving factor for me. And I, you know, I shared a picture of my first house out of home at that conference where I lived in a laundry in Sydney, but I didn't feel really ashamed about any of those things where I think it started to, like, I think, once I had kids, and now that I'm getting a little bit older, you know, it's that real justice thing that I share a lot about how my mother and my grandmother didn't have choices, rather than, Oh, I grew up in this terrible situation, because I feel like that's something that's quite universal to people of a certain age that a lot of us didn't see our mums, but we definitely, very rarely do. I hear from someone who says that their grandmother had economic power, and so that, for me, feels a little bit more universal. I also think too there's some part of my ADHD that can definitely go into oversharing and to be a little bit TMI, and I feel like I kind of not grew out of that, but I probably did that a little bit more in my 20s, but not so much from a business point of view, just to anyone you know, when sometimes you just like, what Absolutely yeah, yeah.
Liz Nable 12:17
So that's interesting. So leads me to my next question is, how did you evolve what you share? Now, what I know a lot of the students inside my course, and I guess anyone who's building a brand, particularly a personal brand like you and I have, is, how much do you share? Because for me, the validity in your story is that you didn't come from money, that you had this I guess you know you had these challenges and you had these obstacles, because it helps me see part of myself in you, and it would help me lean in more towards listening to you, because you've been a bit vulnerable. So how have you sort of decided, or have you learned, I guess, about not oversharing, and what do you include in that brand story now that you feel is still powerful without oversharing.
Speaker 1 13:03
Yes, well, I actually do have rules for myself around it, because I think when I even started my business, I went too broad in what I was going to help people with. And I remember my first website, it was like all these tabs, and it would be like finding a soulmate, building a business, making more money, health and wellness, law of attraction. And I realized I was going too broad, so I set myself up with like, Okay, what is in scope for me as a business that will serve the business? And I actually see, even though I do have a personal brand, I have to see it as separate to myself in a lot of ways, because otherwise, I think you lose a little bit of your identity, and you feel like, oh, everything's up for grabs, and I am not my business. And I think I heard this quote from Madonna, and she was like, Madonna works for me, and I feel that way about, you know, Denise dt is that she works for me, and she's a conduit to help people change their life. But that's not necessarily 100 we're not exactly 100% of the same entity that has helped me enormously. So then I go, Okay, so in service of my clients, what is useful to share? And so there's a couple of things. One is, I don't share my kids faces anymore. That's just out of scope for me. I don't talk about my body, I don't talk about my sex life. I don't talk about things that are happening in real time, necessarily. Yeah, and I also had to realize, I think this is again, going through that era of maybe everyone was TMI, is that some things can be very triggering for people, and you have to be careful how you talk about them in a responsible way. And I'll give you one example. So I've had, you know, different weights, like, literally, my body has been different as I've gone through my business. I've been bigger, I've been smaller. Yeah, and I remember I did, I did a quite a restrictive diet after one of my kids, and I lost a bunch of weight, and people were asking me about and I was talking about it very openly and honestly and and then I realized I was like, it's just not my wheelhouse to talk about that. And because, again, of having that ADHD over sharing thing I could unwittingly trigger people into eating disorders based on decisions that I make for myself and my personality. So that was, you know, and then when I lost weight after my last baby, and people going, wow, you know, what have you done? Or I liked you better when you were bigger, I just went, I'm not a Sims character, no. So for me, that's out of scope, yeah. And I think the same with my background and my story, like there's a ton of things that I haven't shared around. You know, I mentioned, you know, my mum was in DV relationships. Oh, I don't think I'll ever publicly talk about the details of that, because I am a not a service, but I'm not qualified to take people through the emotions that I might trigger in them.
Liz Nable 16:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and also giving people, I guess, that information, when that information is out there, it's quite you can't take that back or change your mind like it, you know. And, and this is really interesting, that you say this because you've obviously built a really, really successful brand, you've written books, you know, you serve millions of women and some men in your community, and this is part of what I teach. What's really interesting that you do this too is alluding to those challenges without, like, putting all your cards on the table and really having people want to see the person you know. They want to know who you are because it is your name on the on the door. But also, like you say, not oversharing, they don't need to know the detail they they it's probably enough that they know that you've faced those challenges and a really interesting kind of journey, that you're now a money mindset coach, considering you, you came from, you know, the background that you did come from, and so those you know, there's a real line in the sand. Isn't there with, with what you share and with, you know, giving people part of your personality, but not giving it
Speaker 1 17:13
all away, absolutely. And I think there's, there's two sides of that. One is, it's okay to keep things for yourself that's either sacred or private or and then there is that responsibility factor. I will say one other thing too, and I've I've noticed this a little bit. My brand is very much girl next door, best friend energy, and that's exactly what I love hearing from people. They say I read your book, it sounded like you were just my friend, like, you know you're not putting yourself on is, you're my friend giving me advice, and I that is exactly who I am, right? I'll meet someone I'm like, I love you. You're my best friend in the moment, the hard thing is then, after that, of then going, well, how much do I allow my best friend into my life then? And I actually moved house last year because I felt like I was in too much of a public area. And you would know this because of the industry that you're in too I haven't had too many bad situations, but I've had a couple of situations where I thought, oh, people know where I live. Oh, it's interesting. Or people know too much about just little personal details of my life. They know my kids names, or they know what my and I was actually at an airport and someone went, Oh, it's Willow. And I just went, oh, oh, yeah. And it just, I know some people share their kids and no judgment, but for me, it made me feel very uncomfortable. I think maybe that introversion side of me, but also a little bit of the safety side. And I think again. Sometimes if people have a brand or they share too much, then people feel like they can share their stuff. And I've heard from people that that can feel very burdens, burdensome, if people are then just jumping in their DMS and sharing, you know, quite triggering things, or just feeling like they can overstep because they're so familiar. And I mean, I have no desire to be on TV at all this, but I'm sure you've seen that in people in TV that's like, oh, that person's in my lounge room, so I feel entitled to, you know, encroach on your life. Well, it's, it's,
Liz Nable 19:11
it's even strange if you, if you're you know, if you're walking down the street or you're sitting in a cafe and you see someone who you know from TV or the movies, it's this weird situation where you feel like you know them, but it's you know, you obviously sit, you know, you process it for a moment ago. No, I don't actually know them. It's not okay to go and say hi. I wouldn't anyway, because I don't know them, but you kind of feel like you do so it, and I know that I've consciously chosen as well to, I think, especially on social media, because most of us, you know, need to do some sort of social media for our businesses, whether it's a personal brand or, you know, a product or a service, I've chosen quite specific things, like, you know, I would share, like my love of dogs, you know, certain colors associated with my brand, certain fonts of writing, you know, obviously your logo, and those sorts of mainstream things. Yeah, but I don't share my kids. And the reason I don't share my kids is just because it's not really relevant to what I do. I don't I it's not at this point. I don't have enough photos for it to be a safety issue, but I just don't feel like it's relevant. I just want to keep it professional, but I will also share bits that are safe to share that give people enough insight to behind the scenes to make them feel some sort of connection with me. Do you have any tips about what you do, like, what you've decided a that you share, I guess, visually on socials and in podcasts and stuff, and then maybe also what you would share about your story on stage and those sorts of things? Yeah.
Speaker 1 20:38
Well, actually, there's a little thing that I think about whenever I share stuff, I go, it's always summer in Lucky Bitch land. So lucky bitch is the name of my first brand, and I actually had to change it. This is interesting. I loved the Lucky Bitch brand. I felt like it was cheeky and fun, and it sometimes people would, it would rub them a little bit the wrong way, and then they'd go, oh, but you're not a bitch. Like you just, you know, it's that cheeky, yeah, thing. I actually had to change it because I couldn't get ads approved anymore, and, like, some filters take it out and things like that. So, but that was my mantra at the start. It's always summer in lucky beach land. And so I want people to feel that like easy, breezy feeling. And so for me, it's not contrived, because my life is very blue, like everything in my house is blue. My God,
Liz Nable 21:28
as you said that everything behind you is blue, everything's
Speaker 1 21:32
blue. My cup is blue, my mug, my mug is blue. And I feel like there's been visual elements that I've used a lot in my social media. Like, I love using combies, like blue combies And and, you know, people will say, Oh, that reminds me of you. And that's when you know that you have nailed a personal brand that way. But there's something in there. It's a philosophy. It's not just the visual thing. It's like, I want people to feel, you know, happy and easy. And so actually what happened was, because I started making more money and, you know, being more successful in business, my brand actually got a little bit too fancy for people, right? And I was like, even though I'm up leveling my life, I actually don't need to share all of those up levels, because it's not relatable to my audience, and actually don't like it. I agree when I'm too polished. And so that's when you start to go, what is in service of the brand? What am I holding back? What feels authentic and what feels inauthentic? And so I'm not going to not share those things from a like, Oh, I'm hiding them behind the scenes, but it's like, again, what's in service of the brand, my preferences don't always have to serve the brand, and vice versa. So that that really helped. And the other thing that's the seasonal is sunny and lucky Mitch land thing is because I serve a lot of Americans and people in a different hemisphere to me, so you'll never see me really rugged up like in winter, because where's winter? Yeah, yeah, who's having winter? So I kind of my brand news is Kate Hudson, which is that kind of California breezy kind of thing, but it's, it's not just a visual. It's definitely a philosophy. And even when people come to my retreats and things I I've said to them, I can't answer all your questions. I'm not taking you down this deep, dark journey. We're going to look at your money mindset with lightness and curiosity. And if you do need to do that deep, dark stuff, first, I'm not the person for you, because I'm not qualified. But also it's just I can't, I can't hold you in it, and I'm not going to, like, we'll finish the three days. I'm not going to leave you in it. And so it's just everything in the business has to serve that, not attracting people who are codependent and who need me to take them on that journey.
Unknown Speaker 23:52
It's like, you
Speaker 1 23:54
know what I mean, just lightness, casual hand holding. And actually, you know what? That's my mom's energy, yeah, even though she had, that's what she's really taught me, is that all through all of the challenges that she has in her life, she is the like, lightest, breeziest, chill person in the world. And I want people to feel that energy when they interact with my brand, not, you know, not anything that's too dark or deep, really? Yeah, that's other people who could do that.
Liz Nable 24:24
That's absolutely right. And it sounds like that's such a conscious choice for you. And you know, and when you said, when you first started out, you were trying, you had 50 different tabs on your website, and you were you wanted to be all things to all people. That is the apart from brand story blocks, that is the other biggest problem that students have inside my course and my programs, is they're so fearful of narrowing down or niching because and even sometimes deep into the course, they're like, Yeah, but Liz, I do this and I do this and I do this, and I'm like, You need to just choose one maybe two, because. That will really clarify for people. When you tell your brand story, when you hold retreats, the conversational tone or the formal tone, whatever your messaging is on your website or your social media, it just brings it all together. Like, what would be your advice with you know, how you experience just choosing one thing and how much it's obviously elevated your business? Like, exponentially,
Speaker 1 25:22
yes, I think this is a game changer. Realization for people is I started out doing life coaching, and I was literally like, come to me with any problem, or help you with any problem. And that's where I sort of got into the soulmate coaching and things like that. And then I realized how much I loved working mostly with entrepreneurs or people who you know, had, you know, ran their own business, or were a leader in some way. And then I realized how much I really wanted to talk about money, but I was too scared to, well, I don't know if you hear my dog. I was too scared to because I thought, but I'm not an accountant and I'm not a financial advisor, therefore I'm not allowed to even talk about money. And I actually think there was, it wasn't even that. I think it was actually more of a gender thing, that women are not allowed to talk about money. And so I gave myself permission. I said, You know what, I'm never going to put myself up as a guru in this area, I'm going to be a contributor to this conversation of women and money. And so I literally made a poster for myself be a contributor, not a guru. And this changed everything for me, because then I realized I'm allowed to talk about money. I'm allowed to just share my experiences, my thoughts, and actually, most of the work that I do, I'm not telling people this is what we need to do, clear our money blocks. I'm saying here are some questions. Let's ask them ourselves, like together, and let's be curious about why we're doing these things because of our experiences. And that changed everything for me, because then I went, if someone says, You know what you're talking about, you're not a fetch, I'd go, I'm not and actually, I'll have financial advisors say to me, I send people your your book, because I know they're not ready. They've got too many fears about money that they're not even they can't even look at it. And so they need to do some of your work first, and then I can help them. And you know, I have never had any desire to further my education around the financial, financial part of, you know, money, because that's not my zone of expertise. It's not, it's not even the part that I'm supposed to do in the world. And actually, that is, it's a discipline sometimes to know what's in and out of scope. Because I grew up as the go to girl for my family and friends. You come to me with a question and a mutual friend of ours, Jo Townsend, she's a go to girl. She's the person that I go to right
Liz Nable 27:55
Joe's a journalist. For anyone who doesn't know we we've worked out that Denise and I have a mutual friend who's also a dancer like yourself and very good friend of yours, and she's also a journalist, which is crazy combination of both our worlds, yes,
Speaker 1 28:11
but she was my go to girl, right? And she still always will be. And so I I loved that in a way, that ego of trying to solve everyone's problems. Because even now, both of us right, if someone says, How do I do this? We'd go, I'll figure it out. Give me five minutes. Yeah, yeah, resourceful. We're resourceful. And one of the best things I started to do in my business, it actually started with my family. First I started saying, I don't know. And killed me because I'm like, I don't know now, but I could find out. But in my business, having to say, You know what? That's not my that's not my area of expertise. So I started to, then train people not to come to me for everything. And I actually even do it in my courses. And I did it just a couple of days ago. Someone in my money mindset group was asking a question about marketing, and I said, we don't talk about marketing here. It's not the place for it. So I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, turn off the commenting. But it the first, like, probably five years of that group. People would just bring anything into that group, yeah? And I had to be like, No. And then the other thing this is, for anyone who's got a course, by the way, if you run a course, people would ask me questions all day long, and I'd answer them all day long. And then finally I said to say to people, what part of the course are you up to?
Liz Nable 29:28
Oh my gosh. So you feel responsible for their success. That's what I do. Yeah, so teaching them to go back and be resourceful, I mean. And this is a thing I and I wrote down right at the beginning, when you first, when we first started talking the word imposter, because you were talking about your story, and then talked about all, you know, the different tabs, and how you sort of niche down over time. And it's interesting that you've inserted yourself. So there are the accountants and the finance. Advisors and the superannuation experts, and you're almost like a complimentary service to those hardcore black and white people. And that's a really clever place to be, because you're speaking from and I speak about this a lot in the course, when you pitch yourself as an expert to the media or on a podcast or whatever, if you're speaking from personal experience, you can't be wrong, because that's your truth, and that's a really clever way to position yourself in what you do, because you've never claimed to be a financial advisor or an accountant or any of those things. But interestingly, you almost serve a wider, more important repurpose to then sending those people on to those experts.
Speaker 1 30:42
Well, actually, what's been useful for me in the last couple of years is realizing that my area can be quite broad, but then now I can niche into different industries and talk about their money mindset issues from a particular industry. So a good example, I was just talking to my dance teacher yesterday. So I do adults ballet, and I was talking about money personalities in the context of running a dance studio, right? And so 80% of the work that I do is pretty similar for everyone, right? But then I can go money mindset for dance teachers. What's What's that 20% that is unique to dance teachers. And so now I realize I love going to those little things. I spoke at a what are they contractors? You know, like guys who have their own construction. Builders. Oh, yeah, builders, yeah. And it was fascinating, because they were all mostly men, and to talk about again, money mindset, but what's unique to this industry? And I feel like that's a really fun place to be when you can flex your topic a little bit, but you don't have to reinvent the wheel. So it's like 80% the same, and 20% is I understand your industry really, really well. And I feel like you could throw me into any industry, and I feel like that's how I keep it fun and exciting for myself, rather than having to constantly reinvent the wheel and come up with new things. And it's
Liz Nable 32:09
interesting, I apply that same theory when I'm teaching business owners to pitch to the media, so you don't have to keep reinventing your story ideas like the same way you would go to, you know, a dance studio conference, and talk about money mindset, I'm assuming, and this is a totally general, um, generalist, um, kind of attitude. But a lot of dance teachers or dance business owners love dance they don't necessarily love running a dance business. So their money mindset would probably be a certain way. I guess. Generally speaking, tradies are the same. They love their trade, they love their tools. They don't necessarily love money, nor are they good at it and those sorts of things. So, you know, I teach people in the media to do the same thing, so you're pitching your area of expertise, but just down different roads. So if you run a business, for example, you know, you might run a skincare business, you're still an expert in skincare, but you're also an expert in running a business, hiring people, people and culture, scaling a business, so not having to reinvent yourself, rather staying in your lane and just tweaking it slightly to the audience that you're talking to.
Speaker 1 33:16
Yes, absolutely. And I think that keeps it really fun and fresh, and also as you grow and change, right? You know, I probably was, you know, when I was starting out, I probably was a little bit more related to people starting out, and now I'm getting a little bit further away from my starting journey, right? And so now I can speak to a different challenge, where, you know, you, maybe you have kids, and you're running a business, and you're you're then teaching the next generation, or, you know, businesses that are maturing, you like. And so sometimes, you know, you start a business and you stay there, and sometimes you have to, like, move on and grow with it, and change your target market a little bit. And I feel like my target market has always kind of been around my age. So that makes it easy for me, because I could just talk about what's happening for me, right? It's good, but I, yeah, I
Liz Nable 34:08
probably naturally attract people. You're I feel like you naturally, not you specifically, but we naturally attract people, almost like it's a natural attraction that it's people our age or experiencing what we I don't know it feels like that, like as I get older, my audience gets older as well. It's probably just attraction.
Speaker 1 34:26
Although I've had enough people recently tell me that they've given my books to their 19 year old daughter, I've heard that thing multiple times in the last year, and that's kind of scares me, because I'm like, Are they gonna just think I'm this old fuddy duddy, but I've heard it enough times to go, Well, what would that be? Would that be an interesting thing, you know, as a as a book for getting into that mindset of younger people, or is that not my role, and someone else steps into that space, you know, so. But I've just heard it enough to go, Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Will ask me, you know, well, what do you do about your kids? You know, money, mindset, stuff and DD? I don't know. I
Liz Nable 35:06
think narration.
Speaker 1 35:07
I know exactly. It's just fun to like see where you can explore different angles, but also know what's in your lane and what's not. And I know there's definitely things where I've just gone, no, it's not, it's not really my thing. And that's okay,
Liz Nable 35:23
did the money do the money specialty, like when you were getting rid of all those other things, you know, the life coaching and those sorts of things I often teach inside my course, to really, if you are, you know, to niche down, obviously, to one or two things, so it's really clear what you stand for. But also to it needs to be something that you absolutely love, because you are going to be talking about it ad nauseam, telling your brand story over and over. And I still love telling my story, because I feel like it, it really helps me, you know, resonate with the people I'm speaking to. Do you feel the same way? And was that why money kept coming back?
Speaker 1 35:57
I think I've always kind of loved hearing about money. And every time, like I would read a book, I love autobiographies, but every time I'd read something like that, and someone would mention money, I'd notice just I'd be like, oh. And I never really had that sense growing up that money is impolite to talk about, which I know a lot of people have and I but I remember that reluctance, because of the fear of being called out as an imposter, right? So I remember saying, like literally doing a wee wee thing, saying to the universe, okay, I'll run one course on money, but you have to send me the students, and you have to make it really easy breezy for me, right? So I went, Okay, I'm going to run. And I ran my first Money Boot Camp, and there was, like, six people in it. And I really thought that that was it. I thought I was like, Okay, you can stop knocking on my door, you know, like that calling. You can let, like, let it go now. And, you know, we've had 10,000 students through that course now, and I've been running it for 12 years. And I do feel like sometimes I do get a little bit like, Oh, I've said everything I can say about this now, but then I'll hear someone else's story and I'll go, Oh, that's so fascinating. Tell me more. And at the end of the month, I do two calls, so I've got a call tonight and a call tomorrow morning with my community, and I always come off those calls 100% in love with it again, and you will enjoy my course. Yeah. Well, sometimes people in my course and they go, that's brand new information. And I go, Oh, it's not about me and my preferences. And so I've had to learn to get my juice in other ways, other than my business. Otherwise, I just, I'll destroy it. Because I go, Oh, everyone knows you know, when you just get a bit bored and you get rhync, and you go, I'm just going to blow it up now, yeah, because you
Liz Nable 37:48
think everyone knows me, because you've spoken about it so much, you assume it's assumed knowledge for everyone around you, and it's not. It's brand new information for them.
Speaker 1 37:56
It's not. And I think this is where I've evolved out of a rags to riches message, because when I first, I think the first two years of running that course, I really thought that everyone kind of grew up that way. It's so weird, but that's, I don't know, and I but I also thought only the people who would be attracted to my work grew up poor, and that was not the case. So I had to shift that messaging, because then it becomes your past experiences shape your current beliefs about money, whatever they were. And I started hearing stories about people who'd say, I grew up rich, but I have these similar blocks, but I got to it from a different way to you. So then that fired up my brain to go tell me more how. Why are you scared about seeing an invoice? And it's not because they grew up poor. It's because around the dinner table, their dad would say no one's allowed to talk about money, and they could have been poor and not being allowed to talk about money. They could have been the wealthiest people in town and not allowed to talk about money. So that's why, then my story isn't as important, because everyone's got a story, and I'm just like, Tell me more. And, um, I ran a two day event in Bristol, in the UK last year, and I I thought it was going to be about business, right? And so I had all these business slides, and what I realized was people just wanted to get up on the microphone and go, I just had enough heart about why I do this thing with money. It's because my dad said this one thing when I was 12, and I've made that my whole belief system. And I was just like, tell us more. Who else has got one? Tell us more. And it was just giving me full body chills more than like, saying people thought they were coming to, you know, learn about business and all that kind of stuff. Because I thought, God, what are we going to talk about for two days? Just fascinating answer and and that's we could have just done. We could have done a week of just hearing about people's stories. Because you hear one person and you go, Oh, I get that. I might not have had the same experience as you, but I get why you'd be scared to chase up one. Your clients because you asked for a friend to pay you back when you were when you were eight, and she ostracized you, or something like that, right? And I'm like, tell me those stories. And then also it's nice and light and curious, rather than, like, there's something wrong with this. And let's, like, go into a therapy session, which I cannot do, yeah, why? And it's interesting, because
Liz Nable 40:21
that's a real you should have been a journalist, just like Joe and me. Real skill of a journalist that you get taught to do as well is to listen more than you talk. So you're you're pivoting. You've pivoted the retreat, I guess, or the or the program in the retreat according to what you were hearing, come back to you, rather than just staying the course of what you had planned, which you could tell from really early stage, was not what people were getting their energy from. I love that. That's so cool. Before we go, one last question, do you have any I guess if a lot of the students in my course, a lot of the listeners to this podcast are super keen to pitch the media, maybe have never pitched before, feel a bit of imposter syndrome. Don't feel quite like the expert, or perhaps they haven't had the gumption yet to niche down. Do you have any tips on how to sort of get that ball rolling, in terms of having the gumption, I guess, to narrow fine tune what you stand for, and also sharing that brand story? Because the two kind of go hand in hand, because you want them to be related, right?
Speaker 1 41:25
Absolutely, you know, I love affirmations. You've heard me talk, you know, I've already mentioned into so many affirmations, one that really helped me so much. When I was feeling that imposter syndrome, I started to say, my face is my fortune. My face was my fortune, not because I had to be the prettiest or, you know, anything like that. I was like, I ain't going to show up so much that I'm just going to be this consistent presence in people's lives. And so they think of me when they want to do XYZ. And so that's when it became for me, my face, my fortune, my face and my fortune. And then I was like, Well, who cares if I don't want to show up? Like, that's how I'm going to make money. That's how I'm going to get clients. And some people who are listening, they don't have a personal brand, but it's like, you know, that's what I was saying to my dance teacher yesterday because I was giving them some marketing advice. I was like, You guys need to post a picture of a person dancing every single day, because people need to see it, not seven times, as we were told in marketing school, it's more like 15 times now, right? Because we're all so busy, and we all have ADHD and perimenopause and menopause, we all need to see it a million times. And so it's like your product is your fortune. You know, your social media is your fortune, your voice is your fortune. Frequency or consistency is your fortune. You can't if you're going to hide like, yeah, people are just not going to remember Yeah, remember you.
Liz Nable 42:53
Yeah, that's it. Yeah. That's so true. Consistency and persistency, two key words that I absolutely stand by. And I guess if you've got to have your own business, because most of the people listening to this podcast either side hustlers, startups founders have backed themselves to a point you may as well, like, dive right in. And you know I say, like, block any of your family or friends on social media if you're worried about what they're going to say. You know, your professional page doesn't need to have all those onlookers and just go for it because it. I felt it. And I was a journalist, and I, in the beginning, I was like, oh, but are people going to be like, What would she know? And the more you do it, the more confidence you get, the more you attract the right audience. You get the same energy back as you put in block the haters. Get rid of anyone who's doing negative stuff or doesn't serve you. And and before you know it, you know, two years has passed, and you have built enough of a following to really boost that confidence and keep going
Speaker 1 43:49
absolutely and it's always blown me away that people just believe me, you know, like they just believe me, and then it becomes a self fulfilling thing, right? It's like, you know, I self published my first books, and then I sold them to Hay House with a new book. And so people believe me that are an author. And I still just think, nah. I just like, I just so I just made it up, like, I just sat down and wrote it the first, the first version of that book was written in two weeks. And I was like, but that's I used to do that at university. In school, write an assignment like, just do it yeah and, yeah people, people just believe you and and I love that you said block all your family and friends, because it's so true. I I've been really lucky. I've had hardly any haters and trolls. But when I have, I think what's important is to have people in your life who are, you know, in the arena, as Renee Brown reminds us, because then you can say, like, I have to tell you this comment that I got because I just, I found it hilarious. Someone said, You look like the weird girl who goes out on The Bachelor first. And I, I actually was kissing myself laughing over that, but because I have business friends that I can go to. You and say, Oh, my God, I just got this comment. Instead of going, oh, now I'm going to run away. Yeah, no, because like, it's going to it's going to happen, and it's totally okay just to block, delete, move on with your life. But have people in your life, have communities, have mentors that you can share those things with, because family and friends are not going going to understand no. But just to circle this back to my story, I always think if my grandmother, who she did not live, to see my success, but she knew that I was going to be successful one day because we went on a road trip one time, up to Queensland and I I was listening to some personal development tapes. Oh, no way. And you know, I was in my early 20s, not making any money, really struggling with, what am I going to do with my life? And we're listening to this guy for like, two hours on the way up to Queensland, and she just turned and she goes, You could do this. And I just went, Ah, that's so cool. And so when I think about imposter syndrome getting haters, I just think of saying to my Nan, who would have loved to be able to make her own money, to say, but what if someone's mean to me on the internet? Yeah, like she just would have gone, what? You know, you've got this opportunity. You've got, you know this, there's so much that you can do for yourself and you can make your own money. Who cares like and I just, I really channel that, because she died when I was 25 and I just think, God, it'd be so cool to be able to talk to her. But I do remember that, and that helps me enormously, yeah, and if you don't, you think of your great, great, great grandmother. Imagine her just going what you could make your own money, but you're worried that someone's going to be mean to be mean to you on the internet, like,
Liz Nable 46:45
yeah, to hold yourself back for as well. It's always the punters in the back rows too, making comments. I guess that confidence comes with time. Once you know you know you value yourself and you have a little bit of time in the arena, but it's absolutely a massive block, and it holds a lot of, especially women in business, as, you know, back and if, you know, if you could just transfer a little bit of that kind of, that confidence to let them know that it's, you know, one kind of troll on the internet is not enough to stop you for, you know, putting your, you know, putting your foot on The accelerator and having a go, like, especially when you're the one having a crack, and you're in the arena, as Brene Brown would say, absolutely
Speaker 1 47:26
but also, I think having that separation, you know, of going, Look, if they knew me the real person, I'm sure they would like me, but it's fine that they don't like, you know, my brand. Yeah, I think I can take that so less personally because I'm like, Yeah, I kind of, I totally get that bachelor comment, by the way. I'm like, Oh yeah, I I could be that crazy, I guess get sent home first. But it's just like, I don't take it personally, because it's not, it's not really me. And so it's like, be a bit dulu as the kids say, yeah. Of just going, I'm just going to pretend, you know, and I'll block them, you know, whatever, the opportunity is too good to pass by
Liz Nable 48:08
Absolutely. Oh, I've loved our conversation. We said we're going to go half an hour, but I knew we'd talk and talk. Thank you so much. Janine, Denise, it's just been an absolute pleasure having you on the show
Speaker 1 48:19
me too. Liz, thank you so much. And if anyone wants to hit me up, I'm Denise DT on social media, I love hearing your money stories. By the way, you can DM me your money stories, or just, you know, I ask stuff, you can just comment on them, because that's, that's my juice. I'm like, Yes, tell me your money story. Yes.
Liz Nable 48:36
And I'm keeping every time I talk to him, like, I wonder what my money story is like, I wonder, like, I'm so fascinated by the psychology, psychology behind all of this, I'm also going to share your Instagram handle and your email Yes, on the show notes, and obviously, when I've shared this podcast episode, I'll tag you so we can let the world know we had a great chat. Next interview, then
Speaker 1 48:56
Liz, I'll interview you, and I'll ask you all the juicy money questions, and I'll get your money story. Yes,
Liz Nable 49:03
I would love that. I would love that. I would love that that's the debt date.
Speaker 1 49:06
Oh, just think it. Think about this for the next time. Because sometimes when I say to people, you can learn so much about this. Tell me about your school shoes growing up. And I can, I can learn so much just from that sometimes, okay, I'm
Liz Nable 49:19
going to have
Speaker 1 49:20
to think, yeah. So think about that one for next. My god, yes, yes, that's
Liz Nable 49:23
a date. Thank you. Denise, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks. Liz, this episode of media magnet was brought to you by my signature group coaching program, the media masters Academy. The media masters Academy is a live, online, six week course taught by me and designed to teach you how to become your own publicist and give you exclusive access to pitch the country's top journalists and editors. Doors open just three times a year. Check it out at Liz nable.com along with a ton of free resources to help you get started taking your business from Best Kept Secret to. To household name right now. If you love this episode of media magnet, please share it with your business buddies or on social media and tag me at at Liz underscore navel. And if there's a specific guest you want to hear from on the show, or a topic or question you want to know more about, please tell me so I can make sure the show stays dedicated, especially for you. You.
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