Liz Nable 0:00
Tracy Hall is an author, keynote speaker and senior marketing executive who, for better or for worse, is more recently known as the infamous last victim of Australia's most prolific con man, Hamish. McLaren. Tracy lost her life savings to Hamish, $317,000 and her ability to trust anyone ever again. Tracy's story was first told in the hit podcast by the Australian Who the hell is, Hamish, and in May this year, she published her own memoir, the last victim, detailing her life and experiences before, during and after her relationship with Hamish. Tracy's story is not entirely unusual. We all know or have heard of someone who's been scammed and lost money to deception. It's everywhere. What is impressive about Tracy is her ability to articulate her experience and draw lessons to help others. Her story covers so much more than her experiences with Hamish, It delves into the global scams and fraud epidemic, media narratives, shame, grief, trust, resilience, vulnerability, mindset and victim blaming. But while Tracy's detailed story of lies and deceit at the hands of a notorious serial con man is so fascinating, it's been turned into a hit podcast and is tabled to become a TV series and documentary next year, you'll be surprised to learn I didn't actually invite Tracy onto the podcast because of her story's content or plot line, so to speak, although it's the kind of stuff movies are made from. Rather, this episode of media magnet is a valuable lesson in the power of storytelling, what happens when you take ownership of your own narrative, and how to harness the opportunity to build an entire business based on your brand story alone. It's an episode for every business owner who's ever doubted their story's relevance believed it to be uninteresting or unimportant, and I hope illustrates how some distance from your own story allows us the space to see its value, be truly transparent, and be okay with being vulnerable, to share the lessons we've learned along the way. If you're keen to learn more about Tracy's full story after listening to today's episode, you can support her and your local independent bookshop by buying her book, the last victim available at all good bookshops now. Hello and welcome to medium magnet, the podcast for female founders and women owned businesses, startups and side hustlers who want to learn how to grow their business, leveraging the media and free PR, I'm Liz Nabal, and I'm your host, personal publicist. PR, strategist and dedicated hype woman. My goal with this show is to give you a behind the scenes tour of how the media works, to break down the barriers between your business and the big mastheads, so you can see how easy it is to get featured simply by giving journalists what they want. At media magnet, you'll also get access to the top journals, editors, writers and PR people in your industry and beyond, sharing their secrets and expertise on the how, why, what and when of pitching and getting featured in the media consistently, I will share with you how to build your reputation as an industry expert so successfully, the media will be knocking down your door. When I first started in small business, 12 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting into. I had spent 15 years as a television news reporter working at several major networks in Australia, and then as a freelancer in the US and around the world. I spent years dividing my time between working long shifts on a news desk and traveling the world chasing stories. It was unpredictable and exciting until it wasn't anymore. I decided I wanted a life where I was in charge of what happened next and where I was working to build my own empire, not someone else's. There was a lot I had to learn about running my own business, but getting media and great free PR was not one of them. I already knew what the media wanted. I knew the secret formula for what made news, and I knew how to leverage those media outlets to build my business, get more exposure and ultimately make more sales. I was featured in every major media outlet in the country, and I never spent a single cent on PR. I took that knowledge for granted until it dawned on me one day that I could teach what I knew to other businesses, let them in on the secret, and they too could build their brands with organic media and PR. Let me help you take your brand from Best Kept Secret to household name. This is media magnet, the podcast, and I'm pretty pumped to have you here. You. Liz,
welcome Tracy to this episode of media magnet, the
Tracy Hall 5:08
podcast. Hi. How are you? Liz,
Liz Nable 5:11
I'm good. It's so funny because we kind of know each other through like six degrees of separation. I do know your story, I wouldn't say as intimately as you do, but I know a lot about your story and how much you've captivated audiences, both in podcasts, in in your recent book. So well, this is cut straight to the chase. Yep, share with our listeners a bit about your story, and then we can go from there, I guess.
Tracy Hall 5:39
Sure. So in 2016 I met a man online by the name of Max Tavita, and we started an intimate relationship, which lasted almost 18 months. And fast forward, sort of nearly 18 months later, and I woke up one morning to a Crime Stoppers video online of an unidentified man being arrested outside of his Bondi Beach apartment, and his face was all blurred out. But of course, I knew without a shadow of a doubt that that man was my boyfriend, Max Tavita, who I knew as a Chief Investment Officer for a family office. But in fact, his name was actually Hamish McLaren, and he was one of Australia's most notorious common and he had been arrested for swindling 15 victims of $7.6 million I was his last victim, and I lost my life savings $317,000 and I think it's fair to say I also lost my ability to trust in the process. So that's it in a nutshell.
Liz Nable 6:46
That's a pretty good story. I mean,
Tracy Hall 6:49
like, funny, I wasn't the main character.
Liz Nable 6:51
I know, I know that's the difference. I have so many questions for you. I mean, I could sit here for hours with you and just still go down that path. But today we're here to talk about how what's been born out of your story, what opportunities you've created out of that story, and perhaps help our listeners, who are mostly, I guess, small to medium sized business owners, who perhaps aren't aware of their story or how to harness their story, how, no matter what the circumstances, whether it's your happy, happy story or a sad story or a combination, for most of us, hopefully not as dramatic as yours, but it's very interesting. Tell us a little bit about the story, I guess, retrospectively, and how you came because you've written a book about it, right?
Tracy Hall 7:42
Yeah, that's right. So I guess maybe backtracking a bit. I've spent 25 years in corporate marketing, so brand and marketing communications, mostly with big tech, so us tech company. So that's that's my career background. And this all happened to me when I was working at eBay, in a pretty big job at eBay, running a big team and and then not long after, well, not long over a year after, I was introduced to Greg berup, who was an investigative journalist for the Australian and he wanted to write a story about a, you know, an article in the weekend Australian about What had happened to me and through that relationship, and through that investigation, we sort of uncovered a lot more, and the court process had started to unfold at that point as well. And he sort of looked at it and thought, this is much bigger than just a week in Australian article. This is a podcast, and that is where the podcast, who the hell is Hamish came from, and it was around the time back in sort of 2019 I think, it launched when podcasts were first really gaining momentum. So the Australian had done the teacher's pet and they just decided to let Greg investigate this story and start a podcast. So that was the beginning. That was sort of the story origin, I guess you could say, because what had happened was I was on a victim's list. I had made a statement I was trying to piece together the last 18 months of my life, and the police wouldn't really talk to me or give me much information, other than vague comments around there are many victims. It is millions of dollars. It's a legal case. We can't tell you much more, and the authorities were kind of in the same boat, so I had no information. I knew this man as Max Tavita, and suddenly he's arrested and he's in jail, and I know nothing about who this character actually is. And it wasn't until I started speaking to Greg and he started investigating that we started putting all the pieces together, and that's where the podcast came from. So the story really came together at that point. And then, of course, it went absolutely ballistic, like there were millions and millions of downloads. Everyone was talking about it. And I. Guess That was sort of in line with the court case that was happening. So that was being sort of rolled out at the same time. And at this point in my life, I was really just trying to rebuild my life, really. And I just had my head down, my bum up. I was working really hard. I was a single mom. I'd lost everything I had my monthly salary, which, you know, it's not lost on me that I had a great job at the time. So I was just rebuilding financially at this point and just trying to get my life back in order. And to be quite fair, let's get myself out of bed every day, because it was pretty, pretty traumatic time for me. And it wasn't until the end of 2022 and I met a ghostwriter at a charity lunch one day, and she had actually written a girlfriend of mine book, and I reached out to her on on Instagram afterwards, and said, Hey, I've I've got this story that I think is kind of interesting, and I've been thinking about writing a book for a long time, but I don't really know where to start, and I'm not sure I've got the capacity, and I just want to know what it takes. And we had a zoom call, and she knew the podcast, she knew the story. She's a true crime junkie, so she was just like, right? We're going to write a chapter summary. And we did that, got it to an agent, got it to some publishers, and and then last year, while I was working full time, we wrote the book. And it wasn't until this year, when when the book was published and people started asking me about speaking and being on panels and a whole bunch of different things, that that's when my career has really shifted. And this is what I do full time now. So this has become, I've set up a business talking about my story, I guess you could say, but not, you know, not really too much focusing on the the Hamish chapter. It is really about what I've learned since and and really how prevalent scams and fraud are, because I never thought it would happen to me. And, you know, I think we all think that, and I've gone deep into this world of scams and fraud and educating people and becoming a Financial Wellness Advocate, just really to ensure and educate people. So, you know, that doesn't happen to anyone else. So
Liz Nable 12:12
it's so interesting, the story itself, and obviously, how it's evolved for you, and just for anyone who's listening, weird, six degrees of separation. Tracy, who the hell is Hamish podcast? My brother in law, Matt Nabal, who's a screenwriter and an actor, was actually hamish's Personal Trainer. Would you you know this? Tracy, I'm telling everyone else, back in the early 90s, sorry, no, back in the 2000s it must have been early 2000 early 2000 so I knew stories of him as Hamish, not as Max. So when we again, randomly met up at that finance event through another mutual friend of ours, we sort of connected over that. And it's just this weird. I guess the normal beaches is a small place, right? So I sort of knew a little bit about your story, just from what Matt had told us, and he was, he was like folklore in our family, because even before he was, long before he was arrested or found out where he would tell us these elaborate stories of you know why, as Hamish had told him, and just a really interesting six degrees of separation. So tell me when you started sharing your story, I guess, to the journalists who first inquired with you, and then at what point did you realize, because a lot of business owners and founders and entrepreneurs who I work with are so close to their story, they don't realize it's a story until they start to tell it to someone else. When was the point that you realized your story was like an amazing story, and filled with, of course, like terrible things that happened, but also had lessons in there that you could share when
Tracy Hall 13:50
it is really interesting. And it always reminds me that beautiful saying, it's really hard to read the label when you're inside the jar, and sometimes it takes someone else to look at you from the outside. And I mean, I see it physically in people, like there are still people that have not heard this story, or not heard the podcast, and literally, their jaws are just on the floor, you know, they're so shocked with the information that comes their way. And I think the first time that happened for me was really when I spoke to Greg, because when it happened and after it happened, I didn't really talk to anyone. I was so I was so full of shame and embarrassment, and I was just, you know, I was depressed, I was anxious. There was so much going on for me emotionally. I was devastated, so I wasn't comfortable talking about it outside of my close circle because of the content, really. And when I started telling Greg, and he was just like, Oh, my God, trace, this is insane. What has happened to you? And that kind of happened throughout the podcast. But of course, he interviewed a lot of people. It was really a podcast about Hamish, and it wasn't then again. Until because I did some speaking around the podcast in different bits and pieces, but went back on my merry way back into corporate marketing, and it wasn't until I met summer, my co author, and we started writing the book, and she's just the most curious, inquisitive person. She started asking questions, and I would quite often brush over things and just really like minimize and go, oh yeah. And that happened, and she goes, No, let's go back to that. And I said, No, it's not important. And she says, No, it is important. Let's go back. And we go deep so quite often having someone to bounce off and really ask those questions and be very curious, because what's interesting to you is very different to what's interesting to other people when you live it, you know, I've lived this story for, you know, seven years now, and it just, it's just something that happened to me, you know, but where everyone else is like, Oh my God. But then tell me about this and this, and, you know, it is really interesting seeing it through other people's eyes. So I would highly encourage you to you know, and sometimes it's someone not too close to you, because people that know your story, they make, they fill the gaps themselves, because they've got that background. Whereas sometimes, if there's a trusted person in your network or your circle, or maybe not a mentor, just someone who's curious about you and your business and your background and the back story, to really ask those questions. And you, you kind of, you do that a few times, and you can start to see common themes, because people really generally want to know similar things. And then you kind of hook into that and go, Okay, that's interesting to people what, you know, how could I tell a story around that? Or, how could I flesh, flesh that out? And I think in terms of storytelling, writing the book, has been a fascinating process for me, because I'm a very, I'm a very pragmatic, rational to the point in 25 words or less. Let's you know, I've written, you know, digital communications for the last 20 years of my life. So you know, you got to do it really quickly. And what I learned through the process of writing a book is there's so much value in story and creating images and using words that conjure up emotion and you know, and that's why the book, having a co author to write the book with me was such a valuable asset, because it's much more entertaining. It's much more interesting. It is so much more of a page turner than what I would have, because I would have written things like and then I cried for a week, every day and every night, and that's it. But that, you know, when you when you kind of explore that and explore the emotion and the why, and put people in your bedroom, when you're under your doona and really struggling with something, or, you know, finding the joy in the day when you didn't expect it, and explaining that and expressing that with words and imagination. You know, I think, I think that's been a really interesting process for me in terms of reliving and telling the story. Because, you know, direct words are great. I'm a digital asset. But people want to visualize, and they want to imagine, and they want to feel things. And that comes with storytelling, yeah, and they
Liz Nable 18:26
absolutely do, particularly with a book, obviously, where you have the luxury or the curse, I guess, of filling all those pages,
Tracy Hall 18:32
75,000 words. Yes, 75,000 words. And,
Liz Nable 18:36
and I it is interesting because, like inside the course, I teach people about their brand story, which is obviously it will be different for a lot of business owners. I guess you have bricks and mortar or a product or service based business to you, but I mean, I think you'll agree here, like storytelling is is similar across every realm, like movies, poems, story, you know, songwriting, books, you know, you want to take people on a journey and invite them into your world to share a piece of you that they may never have experienced before, or they see themselves in you. And that's really important way to connect with people and and I guess, to build a business from which is what you're doing with the book,
Tracy Hall 19:15
right? Yeah, that's right. And finding ways to connect with people, and that quite often comes with sharing something about yourself or your experience that creates a level of vulnerability. I think sometimes even businesses, it's very business, you know, and we're talking about a service or a product, and, you know, missing that connection piece that makes people feel emotionally connected to people. I mean, for me, this book is incredibly like exposing, you know, my story is very exposing. I have to stand in front of people nearly every day and say, this was the biggest mistake of my life. You know, here are all the red flags that I missed. But at the end of the day, you know, I. Had to make a decision, you know, do I want to own the story, or does the story own me? And before I spoke to Greg, and before I did the podcast, and before I wrote the book, really the story was owning me, because I was so ashamed of what had happened, and as soon as I let that go, you know, the feedback I get constantly is, you know, your vulnerability is incredible. And what's really interesting is that vulnerability is contagious, right? So absolutely, if you sort of release something about yourself, even if it's a small thing that creates that exposure or that connection, then you'll often find that people will have a connecting experience, or they'll release something about themselves, or, you know, the amount of people that come up to me afterwards and say, Oh, this, this thing happened to me and I felt the same way, or whatever it might be. And I love those conversations. You just feel closer to people. And
Liz Nable 20:52
that's how humans Connect. When you can identify an emotion that they feel aligned with, or perhaps that triggers them or shocks them into thinking back to something that might have been similar. Or how did you I mean, obviously you had to give up worrying what people thought about you, because you're getting obviously you felt shame and you felt stupid, I would imagine. And you know, you're thinking that people are thinking, Oh my God, how could she possibly not have known what the general public thinks about things that they know nothing about. Yeah, tell me a little bit about that. Like, how did you because I know, again, I know your story is, you know, it's a different story because it is dramatic and it's an amazing, interesting story full of characters and emotion and those sorts of things, but essentially storytelling in any way, particularly if you're telling the story of your of your business or your brand, or sharing something vulnerable about challenges you face and those sorts of things you do worry about what people think of you. How did you sort of come to terms with that, to really share it authentically?
Tracy Hall 21:57
Yeah, I think the biggest way to kind of capture that is I had to really, I had to couple acceptance with the situation, with a whole bunch of self compassion. And that is not something that comes easily for me. I'm very hard on myself. I think we all are. I think, I think we're probably harder on ourselves than we are on anybody else in our lives, right? And I was really tough on myself because, you know for over a year that they are the conversations I was having my head. There is not one thing that anybody could say to me that I've not already said to myself in the most horrible way, and even saying that out loud makes me feel really emotional. Because, you know, if, if this had have happened to my best friend, there's no way I would have said those things to them. You know, I would have been kind and caring and compassionate and thoughtful, and I would have given them lots of support, and yet I wasn't doing that for myself, and it took me a long time. And, you know, to be honest, there are still, you know, I'm still getting there, like I'm still, I'm still working through that. So in terms of worrying about about what other people think of me, I got to the place where I'm now more worried about what I think of myself, right? And because at the end of the day, people are going to think what they're going to think like, people are going to have opinions about all sorts of things. You know, you shouldn't have done that. You made a mistake here. That's a shit product. I don't like what you're offering. I don't like your team. Whatever they're going to say, right? You can't control any of those things, because they're coming from a position of of their history and their background and their experiences. And, you know, the people that say things to me like, oh, but, you know, you're really smart and you've traveled the world, and you know, if it can happen to you, it can happen to anyone. It's kind of like this really backhand a compliment, you know, but I just think you know you don't know until you know you don't know until you're in someone else's shoes. And I just give people a lot of compassion for those comments, because you know that, like you know, I'd like to see them go through what I went through, so I don't worry anymore. I think so much has happened in my life that, you know, if I'm worried about what someone else is going to be saying about my experience, then, I mean, I know what happened. I know how I feel about it. I know who I am as a person. I know the reasons I'm doing the things I'm doing now. I have got to a place in my life where self compassion from, you know, internally, is one of the most important things I can work on, and it's a work in progress, and that's and that's where I sit with it. I think it comes with age. To Liz in my early 20s, I used to, I used to care about what everyone thought. And now I'm nearly 50, and I'm like, You know what? It's all good.
Liz Nable 25:04
47 in a few weeks. And I'm like, give a shit what anyone thinks anymore? And all care less, a lot less than I
Tracy Hall 25:13
care more about what I think of me. That's the difference. Yeah, tell me
Liz Nable 25:18
a little bit about so obviously, you wrote a book, so you had to be prepared to be very vulnerable. Did you share everything in that book? Because I think for a lot of the the audience of this show, particularly, you know, they'll be telling their story to, you know, to essentially, in the beginning, you know, have a personal you know, give a personality to their brand to share their backstory, to help their customers see you know who they are, and those sorts of things. I do encourage them to share honestly. But there's a really fine line, isn't there between sharing too much or the way you share those challenges? It can't be. I don't I don't love when I read a story that feels like a Whoa. Is me. So how did you Yeah,
Tracy Hall 26:01
the sad Sally stories? Yeah, I was really conscious of that because, I mean, we've met each other once, once before, and my general personality is really positive, upbeat, optimistic. I have a stupid, wicked sense of humor. I love laughing and so and if anyone's read the book listening to this, there is so much humor throughout it, because sometimes if you don't laugh, you cry, right? And there's always a funniness to be taken out of things. So I was really, I was really keen that I didn't want this to be a sad Sally story, because, you know, a lot of things have happened and, and the book goes into a lot of stuff, you know, in addition to Hank Michelle, a whole bunch of stuff happened in my life before I've met Hamish that I, I do talk about, and some of it was pretty heavy, right? And, but I didn't, I didn't want it to be this, like, big tear jerker and, oh, my God, that's horrible. We've gotta be scared of the world like what I wanted it to be was also a beacon of hope, because it doesn't matter what happens to you in life, you do have the ability to rebuild and, you know, come out of it. It's messy and it's long and it's hard and it's painful, and there's so much work you have to do to get there. But I wanted it to be, you know, an inspiring story as well, and one that people could take lessons from and and there was so much humor sprinkled through. So that's one of my brand. Like, if I was to express my brand, like, humor would be one of the key elements of my brand. So that's definitely what I wanted to pull through in the in the book. And I think in terms of that line between what what you share, obviously emotional stories are the ones that are memorable, but laughter and joy our emotions as well. You know, you have to think of the full spectrum of emotion. And often people go to those ones that are tear jerkers or heart string pullers or whatever that might be. I would recommend you don't share anything that you're not comfortable talking about. But there are certain things that aren't comfortable to talk about. You know, I talk about the death of my father in my book. Now, that happened in my mid 20s, and I still get really teary thinking about that. If I had to talk about that every day instead of Amish, that would be really hard for me, but it's in there because it's a part of my life, and I wanted to explore that. But you know that that is something that I probably don't want to, don't want to kind of do. I'm not going to be a grief speaker. Yeah, that's not what I want to want to do. So you have to be really comfortable. But don't shy away from something that's just a little uncomfortable, because that's where the that's where the goodness is.
Liz Nable 28:55
That's interesting that you and that's something that we talk about inside the course as well. A lot is deciding what you stand for and what your tone or your messaging is going to be like before you start. So you know, if your brand is conversational and funny and you don't take yourself too seriously, the brand story needs to align with that, and or vice versa, and being conscious of not, you know, I guess you're not going to manufacture your story, because your story is your story, but trying to balance it out a bit with some light heartedness, or, you know, the pros, with the cons and negatives, and you know, the and also the successes that you've had as well. Yeah. What do you think makes a good story?
Tracy Hall 29:40
Authenticity, like you can smell bullshit a mile away, right? Like you can't. You just can, and you can tell when people are kind of like performative in their expression of their story, you know, like, just a bit too dramatic. Yeah, you i. Like the stories that just feel a little wobbly and a little bit not too polished, you know, you can tell people that like really passionate, so someone that's super, super passionate, you know. So I think, I think passion makes a good story authenticity, you know, which comes with that passion, I think. And I would say just it doesn't have to be perfect, like life is messy and stories are messy and journeys are messy and joy is messy and pain is messy. It's all. It's not none of it's perfect, you know? And I think, I think that's what's relatable as well, is when you go in and you're not entirely too perfect. Yeah,
Liz Nable 30:42
absolutely no one wants to hear a story of like, how easy everything is and how they made a million dollars overnight and they didn't really have to work that hard, and they have the perfect children and the perfect husband and
Tracy Hall 30:53
the perfect Yeah, because it actually doesn't exist. And if it looks like it exists, then it's all like, that's when your bullshit radar goes off, right? So, yeah, I would just think really, really hard about it and, and what's important to you? You know, there's probably parts of people's stories that, you know, um, aren't that meaningful, or aren't that important, or you don't want to focus on those, like, don't try and, like, I think the other thing too is you don't want to put everything in there. Like, too much is too much. You know, choose just a couple of things and just refine it and make it really strong and and find get feedback, find ways to make it more interesting. Um, yeah, I've, I think, I think they would be my, my, my ideas around that.
Liz Nable 31:41
And you make a good point, because if you are going to share certain aspects of your story, that is going to be things that people are going to ask you about, or, you know, you will be asked, you know, to do a keynote, or you might be asked on panel. So you have to be willing to share those aspects, if you've, you know, put them down in a book, or, you know,
Tracy Hall 32:01
things, yeah, 100% if you're not willing to share it, don't write it anywhere. Just have it between you and your partner or your besties, you know, like, just have it. And there are things that you might want to keep private, and that's 100% fine as well. I mean, there's a lot in the book about me. It's very I'm very open, but there's also certain things I didn't put in there that I wasn't comfortable with, certain details that, you know, I knew my mom and my daughter would be reading the book one day. So I'm like, you know, there's just certain things that I didn't feel entirely comfortable exploring in too much graphic details. So I didn't I just, you know, and I think there's always a way you can nod to certain things without it, without going into the specifics, you know, sort of little bit of a nod to this, and you close that conversation down.
Liz Nable 32:48
So just allude to it and move on. How? So you've written a book. Obviously, you've released the book. It's called the last victim. That's right, let's just do a little plug here, before I forget. Where can we forget the book.
Tracy Hall 33:01
Oh, you can get it in bookstores, but I would say Amazon's probably the best place to get it at the moment. It's, it'll arrive in a couple of days, and yeah, so orca bookstores or online,
Liz Nable 33:13
awesome. And we'll pop a link to that in in the chat. Um, so you've you've written the book, you've released the book, you're now building this business based around your story. Tell me a bit about that, like, how are you harnessing this story in? What ways are you harnessing this story to build the business? And I guess, what sort of business are you looking to build, and how are you doing that?
Tracy Hall 33:35
Yeah, so the business is essentially like a keynote and workshop education business off the back of the story, and then the book, I identified a bunch of thematics that people continued to ask me about, and they were things that were as obvious as, you know, scams and fraud, because obviously Hamish was a con man and I was scammed, and it was intimate, intimate fraud. So I started looking at that Australians lost $2.74 billion to scams and fraud last year, you know, in romance scams alone, last year, Australians lost nearly $24,000 an hour, an hour like, and they're just the ones that are reported. Like, 30% of people don't report. They're, you know, their scams. So there was just this incredible interest in this topic that I could see coming through in my banking statements, in my service provider statements, every time I opened up the internet, there was something about scams and fraud. There's stuff on the telly. So people are really interested in this topic, and it's, it's a massive issue for well, globally, it's a massive issue. So I thought, well, that, you know, here's a way into the conversation that gets people to stop and notice, because I think some of the communications that the banks and the platforms are sending out whilst they're trying really hard, they're just not cutting through. True, you know, stop, check, verify, like no one cares. But you stand up in front of a group of people, I spoke to 3000 Westpac employees a few weeks ago, and you tell a story like this, and people stop and notice, because they they literally do think, well, if it can happen to her, can happen to me, and I'd go very quickly from the story into what we're seeing in our in our world right now. What are the stats? How are scammers getting there? What have we got to be careful of? So I kind of really, you know, go into that world in terms of educating people about being more financially resilient, and really just opening their eyes to show that it can happen to anyone. So there's an education piece. And for me, that's makes this whole experience worthwhile. You know, I'm actually giving something back to the community that you know is going to protect them from going through what I went through. Yeah. So that's the first thing. And then in looking at the story and the questions that were coming through, there's all these different thematics. So there's things around trust. People want to talk about trust. Why did you trust? How did you trust? Why, you know, how did he gain your trust? How do you rebuild trust? There's things around financial independence and security. You know, I gave away my financial empowerment to him way too easily. Yeah, I was just grateful that he offered to help me with my finances, you know. And I just was grateful that he could see how hard I was working. And I thought, you know, I should have given him the the laundry or the after school pickup. I should have given him my finances, you know, I gave it away so easily. So there's a lot of lessons there for women, particularly and leaning into financial wellness and financial literacy. There's a lot around adversity and rebuilding and resilience. People sort of say to me all the time, my God, how are you still standing and it's taken me seven years to get to a point where I can express exactly how I did that, and how, in some ways there's a process, and in some ways you're just muddling your way through so there's a lot to talk about around that. So I guess you know, at relationships, online dating, you know kids growing up through this digital world and how to be more protected of themselves. Like there's so much to talk about that this story leads into and that my life has kind of shown me that I'm I'm just finding a way to express that, to help educate people and inspire them, and, you know, just hopefully make the world a bit of a better place. Yeah, it's really
Liz Nable 37:33
interesting, because being really like writing the brand story, obviously, or in your case, the book. And then I think advice that the advice you're giving there is for people to be conscious of the themes that surround their story. So for you, obviously you've named so many everything from the scams themselves to trust relationships to financial independence for women, like there's so many different areas now that you could branch off into you choose to or not, is up to you. But now that you've kind of got the book, and you can build a profile off the back of that book, so many opportunities, and if you're not conscious of them, then they're not opportunities. Are they? You've got to be really conscious of, I guess, keeping one eye on the media, what's trending, what are people talking about in Facebook groups, what gets them going, like, Yeah, and like you say, people coming up to you after your keynotes and giving you feedback is also information, like, important data to be conscious of, because they're reflecting back to you what's happening on the ground.
Tracy Hall 38:35
Yeah, it's 100% and every time I do it. There's something else in it. It almost always spurs a LinkedIn post or an Instagram post, because it is just so insightful to hear how other people are reflecting back to you based on their own experience. And yeah, I think it's, it's a bit like that. You know, there's some psychology word for it. But you know, when you you haven't seen the red Toyota, Toyota, and suddenly you want to buy one, and then all of a sudden you see the red Toyota, and
Liz Nable 39:06
you call the baby in the pram. Theory, it's a, there's a German word for it, and I'm constantly into that word. I know exactly what
Tracy Hall 39:13
you're talking we'll find it. We'll put it out there. But essentially, like, if you're, if you're switching your mind onto, you know, this is my story, and I know these are the themes, or this is the world that I'm playing in, and then you can just kind of, you're attuned to what's going on in that world. Obviously, my world right now is a lot around financial, you know, banks and fintechs and platforms and payment services and security. You know, technology and things like that, because that's the clearest sort of, you know, swim lane. But there's a lot going on around conversations around women and financial independence, and so I start listening to, you know, Gen Z and male. Your female influences, you know, so I just start going into that world and start listening to what they're talking about, and think, Oh, how does that relate to me? Do I have a point of view about that? And sometimes I don't. Sometimes I might, I'm not sure. And my My thing is, unless I have a really clear point of view about some thing. I won't comment on it. I won't write a post about it. I won't make any noise, because I don't have a point of view about everything. Sometimes I'm still trying to make up my mind and you know, but there are other times I hear things like I feel so strongly about this because of my own experience. And I'm sure that there would be other people that feel like this too, or if they don't, they may not have thought about it before. You know, I did a post yesterday about women and money in Australia, and the timeline, which is essentially happened almost within my time, within my lifetime, so Australia, Australian women couldn't open bank accounts until the 60s. We couldn't get credit cards. In 1971 was the first bank to allow a loan to a woman without the signature of a male guarantor. Now I was born in 1975 right? So these things have only really happened in my lifetime. So I think about the mindsets and the generational framework that's been presented to me from my parents. You know, my mom couldn't have a bank account until 10 years before I was born, like what you know. So you start to think about money and, you know, in relation to all of this, and no, you know, it's no wonder I subconsciously thought that the man in my life was better at managing money than me, you know, you start to think about those things, you go, Okay, how does that relate to my story? That's really interesting. And then, and then I've got, I've obviously got a very strong point of view about it, but, yeah, so things like that, I think it's, you know, and the new cycle, you know, the new cycle is, is very rich with ideas, yeah, everything. And it's also,
Liz Nable 42:07
it's, it's really important the message that you don't have to lean into every single conversation that tap piques your interest, but in order for you to, like, stay aligned with your brand story and be able to tell it ad nauseam, as you will have been doing in the last six months, and will continue to do, because this is what your business is built on. Your story is to remain, you know, to stick in the lane where you feel most passionate about, because that's what will you know, always pique your interest and where you will. And I'm, I'm imagining now you're building up your profile as an industry expert, not just in scams and fraud, but in those other little pillars, not little big pillars that surround that topic, and being really conscious about Yeah, I have a really strong opinion about that, and remembering that it's an opinion, and others will have a different opinion to you, but Feeling confident to weigh in on those conversations. And, you know, I guess, have you consciously gone out to the media now to pitch yourself as an industry expert? I'm, I mean, it's probably going to be a little bit different for you, because launching a book is always a flurry of media, as opposed to perhaps a regular business that drip is drip fed to the media over time. But tell me about your experience there, and have you got the media coming to you? And how are you harnessing that? Yeah,
Tracy Hall 43:24
at this stage. So the book, the book, launched in May, and there was incredible amount of media surrounding that. And of course, it was about the book and the story and what's happened. And my challenge now is to create media outreach and stories that can be presented back to them at the right time. So you know that the the media going really hard on the banks at the moment about reimbursing scams. Now, you know, as a victim survivor, that would be a great place for me to play. I don't necessarily have the same point of view as them. So for me, that the challenge is to get sort of a bit of a roadmap of different things that I want to present back to the media based on what I'm learning, what I'm seeing, what I'm hearing, and then figure out, I mean, even before that, figure out what my key thematics are. Because I don't want to be the expert on trust, the expert on relationships, the expert on dating, the expert on scams, I think I need to be just one of those things, or maybe even just two of those things, if I'm lucky, over time, and then just go deep on on that. So for me, that would be sort of scams and fraud. And it could be, you know, scams hitting seniors, scams hitting teenagers, scams hitting, you know, Asia, whatever it might be. So that is, that is my next challenge, because I had a massive flurry of media with the book, and then I've been busy sort of talking and creating this business. And that's the next step for me.
Liz Nable 44:54
It's my PR,
Tracy Hall 44:56
Liz, you know, Oliver, you can, you know, I.
Liz Nable 44:59
Yeah, I hate to bring it back to me, but this is exactly the conversation I was having with we're in the last week of the course this week, and still a few of the business owners are trying, thinking that they're missing out on an audience by not niching down. And what I advise people to do is exactly what you just said, which is, you don't need to be, you know, an author or or a speaker or an expert on every single vertical that you could potentially talk about, because that just makes you a generalist, and that's boring. And there's a million people who could talk about finance. There's a million people who can talk about wellness, like you want to really get very, very good at one or two key, key issues that you that you speak about, or that you stand for what you feel passionate about, and then that creates a really strong brand, because it's very clear what you stand for in the outset, so you're doing all the right things you don't need me, and being strategic about it before you start, because you don't Want to be known like you say trust and scams and romance and this and that, because that just confuses people, and you want to really build off this flurry of media that you have, particularly around a book, while you're still in the the zeitgeist, and people are talking about it, using that as a platform to just continue to evolve and grow the business. So yeah, yeah, you 100% this is, I mean, I could talk to you. I'm desperate to ask a question, more questions about
Tracy Hall 46:27
how Ask away.
Liz Nable 46:30
I will. That's a whole nother podcast episode. It's been an absolute pleasure to have you, Tracy, and I'm going to pop all the links of where people can get your book in the show notes. You, you know, I know that you're very busy these days building that business now. Oh, I do have one more question. Yes, do you feel comfortable saying that what happened to you is almost like a sliding doors moment that you were meant to be doing what you're doing now? As as much as it pains you to say, you know, obviously everything that's happened in the last seven years. But do you feel like this is has been this? You've obviously taken an opportunity and really harnessed it?
Tracy Hall 47:08
Yeah, I I would have had a very different answer for you five or six years ago, because I wasn't in a place where I could share my experience with perspective or grace or wisdom, I guess it has taken me a long time to get here, but what I did know very early on was that there had to be some purpose in my pain or my predicament. I guess because I sort of felt like if I didn't do something worthwhile with it, then it was all for nothing. It was all for nothing, and it just would have been really, just a really shit experience. End of story, full stop. And you know, I do feel very passionate about it not happening to anyone else, and I'm not naive enough to think that it won't, but if I can do something about that, then I will, and that's what I've done. It has taken me a long time to get there, but, yeah, it is a sliding doors moment, but the realization came a lot long after the door slid open and shut. And you know, I think that's just the way that life works out. I think I would have been able to write the book or discuss this as clearly as I can now with this distance between the experience and and how and where I am now, and I was spending a lot of my time and energy just rebuilding, you know, I lost everything. So, you know, that was, that was my, that was what I had to do then, and this is what I'm doing now. And I just, I feel so passionate about it. And, yeah, I'm, I'm grateful I say my keynote, you know, Do I regret creating that dating app profile back in 2016 and I don't, you know, it's, it's brought me to where I am today. I'm far more compassionate, I'm wiser, I'm stronger than I ever thought I was. So I am grateful for the experience, and hopefully, in a weird way, I get to help other people you know, in their journey as well.
Liz Nable 49:16
Well. Congratulations on the book and all your success. You killing it now, and you know, raising awareness on something that's really, really important. So thank you for coming on the show. It's been a pleasure to have you. This episode of media magnet was brought to you by my signature group coaching program, the media masters Academy. The media masters Academy is a live, online, six week course taught by me and designed to teach you how to become your own publicist and give you exclusive access to pitch the country's top journalists and editors. Doors open just three times a year. Check it out at Liz nable.com along with a ton of free resources to help you get started taking your business. From best kept secret to household name right now. If you love this episode of media magnet, please share it with your business buddies or on social media and tag me at at Liz underscore navel. And if there's a specific guest you want to hear from on the show, or a topic or question you want to know more about, please tell me so I can make sure the show stays dedicated, especially for you. You.
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