Liz Nable 0:00
Today, we're joined by veteran journalist Laura Orbison, whose career has spanned 14 years across Australia's leading media outlets, including Daily Advertiser, News Corp, kids spot and Mama Mia. Laura's passion for authentic storytelling and deep insight into the digital parenting space makes her one of the most in demand voices writing for women and families today, and we've got some exciting news. Doors to the August round of the media masters Academy open this week. So Tuesday, July 29 7am Australian Eastern Standard Time, Laura will be joining us inside that course as one of our very special guest experts. So anyone who signs up will have the rare opportunity to pitch their story ideas to her live and get real time feedback straight from one of the industry's best. In this episode, we dive into how the world of women's media is shifting. What editors are really looking for in 2025 and practical advice that will help you craft must read pictures for top digital parenting and lifestyle outlets if you want your story to stand out or you're ready to land your first national media mention, this is essential listening.
Liz Nable 1:22
Hello, and welcome to media magnet, the podcast for female founders and women owned businesses, startups and side hustlers who want to learn how to grow their business leveraging the media and free PR, I'm Liz Nabal, and I'm your host, personal publicist. PR, strategist and dedicated hype woman. My goal with this show is to give you a behind the scenes tour of how the media works, to break down the barriers between your business and the big mastheads, so you can see how easy it is to get featured simply by giving journalists what they want. At media magnet, you'll also get access to the top journals, editors, writers and PR people in your industry and beyond, sharing their secrets and expertise on the how, why, what and when of pitching and getting featured in the media consistently, I will share with you how to build your reputation as an industry expert so successfully the media will be knocking down your door. When I first started in small business 12 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting into. I had spent 15 years as a television news reporter working at several major networks in Australia and then as a freelancer in the US and around the world. I spent years dividing my time between working long shifts on a news desk and traveling the world, chasing stories, it was unpredictable and exciting until it wasn't anymore. I decided I wanted a life where I was in charge of what happened next and where I was working to build my own empire, not someone else's. There was a lot I had to learn about running my own business, but getting media and great free PR was not one of them. I already knew what the media wanted. I knew the secret formula for what made news, and I knew how to leverage those media outlets to build my business, get more exposure and ultimately make more sales. I was featured in every major media outlet in the country, and I never spent a single cent on PR. I took that knowledge for granted until it dawned on me one day that I could teach what I knew to other businesses, let them in on the secret, and they too could build their brands with organic media and PR, let me help you take your brand from Best Kept Secret to household name. This is media magnet, the podcast, and I'm pretty pumped to have you here.
Unknown Speaker 4:00
Hi, Laura, welcome
Speaker 1 4:01
to the show. Thank you so much for having me. This
Speaker 2 4:05
is your first podcast interview. I know I'm a bit nervous. Oh my gosh, it's so
Liz Nable 4:11
funny actually, that will make most of the listeners. So most of the listeners to this show are like small business owners, female founders, entrepreneurs, startups, and they always get nervous when they're on their first podcast or they're doing their first media interview. So yes, you know that we all feel the same way, exactly.
Speaker 1 4:27
I was already thinking that about this, and we'll talk about it later, about that, like self promotion. It's not natural. Doesn't come naturally to me anyway, as a journalist, but it's kind of where everything's going.
Liz Nable 4:38
It is, I know, and I try and think a little bit well the way, because I'm obviously have come from being a journalist as well, and then also now a personal brand, which feels really cringy and weird, but try and think about, like, the value that I can add. And, you know, I think what journalists know. We assume that the vast majority know what we know, but your brain is like a treasure trove of all these media tips. And. Tricks. So, yeah, I think you'll have a lot to you know, it'll be a very interesting
Speaker 1 5:04
chat. Oh, hopefully I can help out a little bit. Yeah, sure.
Liz Nable 5:07
And you're also a guest expert inside the next round of the course, which we're really excited to have tell us a little bit about, I guess, your experience as a journalist and who you write for now. And I guess you know where you sort of come from to this point. Okay, well,
Speaker 1 5:24
I've been in media industry, probably for about 1314, years now. I started as a journalist in print in the country, and then I moved to Sydney as and was with News Corp for about 10 years. Had a few different roles there. I was a lifestyle reporter. I was a local news reporter. So then doing, you know, breaking news and council and crime, but that really community based stories. And then I moved to digital with kidspot.com and I was A News Writer there as well. And then kind of went off and had children and came back and forth with a night editor role there. So then I covered a lot of news as well as lifestyle, because it was, you know, digital driven. So we did a lot of entertainment, lifestyle, just personal, real mom stories, real stories that are affecting, yeah, moms through the season. So that was kind of the content I did there. I now, since I had my last child a year, been over a year ago, I've now moved to freelancing. So I've left News Corp, but I still write a bit for kids, spot and occasionally news.com and kind of pitch to those sites, as well as some others like Mama Mia, mostly digital women's media,
Liz Nable 6:44
yeah. And it's super interesting, because we haven't had someone from Mama Mia or kids spot inside the course yet. And, you know, it's new to me in terms of, I, you know, I've dealt a lot with, like, mainstream newspapers and magazines and those sorts of things, yeah, the kinds of content that Mamma Mia are looking for, and kids spot is like, almost like a different news bracket, isn't it to like, like outlets?
Speaker 1 7:08
Yeah, they're definitely click driven and fast paced and that kind of viral oriented, but it's still very, you know, they like the emotional stories, it has to be relatable and to women. They are marketing to women kids thought definitely more to moms. And a lot of first person and most of it is, you know, first person essays, how people experience different things in career, motherhood, birth parenting, they like to share real stories and stories that make people read and kind of say, oh, that's what I went through. Or, you know, I wish I knew that when I was going through this stories that they have to be quick to engage. For sure, they're not, you know, we talk about click bait, but it's click bait when you don't get what you're promised. So, but there is definitely a teaser, you know, to get a really attention grabbing headlines, to get someone to click, because everyone's attention spans are so short they're constantly scrolling. So yeah, they do really use emotion and a bit of shock to get someone to click,
Liz Nable 8:25
we need to create, like, a new buzzword for clickbait. Because you're right, clickbait leading, but it they are, I guess, clickbaity headlines, they it's almost like the media is woken up and worked out all of a sudden. Like, if people can relate to the news, then they can, you know that, and that's gone in, it's like that whole direction now, of that first person, mamma, Mia, style
Speaker 1 8:45
journalism, yeah, it is. And kidspot too. They want lots of content, and that's even for your clients. But, I mean, they're taking submissions and articles written by everyday people, like, if you have writing skills, you could get an article on some of these sites. Some of them want to hear from you. They want to hear your stories. So yeah, you have to nail a pitch, obviously, an email. But there's also ways to share your story in social media. That's where we find a lot of stories. When things go off virally or like, I find stories in Facebook groups and mum groups, even if they're not viral or going off, they're just super interesting, and that real life things that are happening to them, if it's happening to someone there in a mum's group or at the school gate, you know, it's just a nugget of a story that it's going to affect someone else, and that's what they want to Share, things that relate to other people.
Liz Nable 9:42
Yeah, those Facebook group stories are really interesting because it's almost like this direct and it sounds really voyeuristic, and I'm in a few mums Facebook groups, and I didn't join because I'm a journal and I'm mining for stories. But sometimes I'll see stories and be like, this is the best, you know, because. You can see when someone posts about something that's happened to themselves, and then 300 comments of people, yeah, either agreeing with them, or there's hot debate. Yes, you've for free, with no research or data. You're like, you're like, work like tasting or testing the temperature of the room and working out what's what affects people and what people want to know about and what people are talking about and what gets them gets them, I guess, debating and those opinion pieces. It's almost like a no brainer those kinds of
Speaker 1 10:28
stories. Yeah, and there is, obviously they do, like kind of those divisive opinions, but even if it's just sparking a conversation or switching, you know, persuading someone about another side of a conversation, but yeah, it's a lot of opinion. I'm noticing for sure, and that's even coming from the writers. I'm seeing journalists talk about what they found on the weekend, or what they tried and what was amazing, what happened to them at the school playground or in the shopping center. There's a lot of that. Yeah,
Liz Nable 11:00
tell me a little bit about we talked about this the other day on the phone. When we first chatted, you've obviously been not out of the game, but you retired, a semi retired from the game while you were having children, and so you've really noticed this big shift from what was, I guess, being accepted as a pitch five years ago, compared to now. Can you tell us a little bit about that, and what you've seen change and evolve in terms of the kinds of media outlets you write for, or who you kind of work with,
Speaker 1 11:28
yeah, well, some especially for talking about, like products and services and things I don't know there would be stories that I wrote or I saw get written years ago that just aren't getting over now. And I think it still is to do with that I or we in the headline, you know, people would have written content a few years ago that's like the five best hacks for traveling on a, you know, long haul flight with a toddler. These are your five best tricks. But whereas now it's I drove to I flew to Europe with my toddler. These are my best tricks, like you have to, and that's what I would say to put in your headline and in the subject heading. It's i and we. It's a not the cyber safety tips, it's I'm a cyber safety expert. This is how I keep my child protected. Like, that's what I'm seeing, at least on these really digital, first click driven sites, not so much. There's still a lot of expert opinion. Actually, that's and that's where people can come in as well, that there's stories are written about the cycle, and now, sorry, I said again, a lot of the content as well is, I mean, we just saw it with the Coldplay thing everyone. It's just hot takes and angles, and it's looking for a different angle of whatever's trending in the news cycle. And it can be as superficial as that, but there was a gazillion hot takes, like, I couldn't look at my feed and it's brand marketing. It's like businesses going into it. So anything that's viral in pop culture, Tiktok, a trending sound, a trending saying, it just goes everywhere, and it's obviously not those super fact driven news, political tabloidy sites, but digital only, it's just whatever's going like viral is big.
Liz Nable 13:30
That was so interesting because that was last week, and I hadn't been on my phone all afternoon, really, or much of that Saturday morning, I think, is when it came out for us, and then I got on my phone and I was like, what, what is going on? Like, every single post on my feed was about the couple I know, and I feel like I'd missed, like, a major like, you know, like World War Three going off. I know it was a couple getting outed for having an extra marital affair.
Speaker 1 14:00
And it's all, it's as equally like horrifying as it is amusing. But I saw that I must have been scrolling late at night. I saw it quite early, and I thought this is going to go off the comment already. Was tagging who it was, and I thought this is just going to go everywhere. And, yeah, it did. It's not like, they're not my favorite, that's what. I'm not a natural hot tape writer, yeah? But that's, that's what they like. I still like telling, you know, the local, you know, small voices, but it's, they definitely want more of that. Yeah, here's what I think about it.
Liz Nable 14:38
Yeah. And I think a lot of businesses jumped on that. And obviously, this is perspective, because that's this, the audience of this podcast is a lot of obviously influences jumping on it. But people experts talking about because the woman was in HR, and like, women's agenda put out an article about how the Board of astronomy, me. In, and then I was like, going, but what's that got to do with like, I was string that all together, but obviously everybody's finding a way to jump onto that, because they know that if that's going viral, then from social media, it'll show up.
Speaker 1 15:14
Yeah, it's all about analytics and yeah, the algorithm, same with anything that's trending. You write the words or use the pictures you're going to it's going to show up in someone's feed. And that's, yeah, that goes into the analytics side of things. But terrifying,
Liz Nable 15:34
crazy to think that that was like the lead news story, like, I know it's a bit sad actually, my algorithm for work is, is other, like, is media, right? So it's not Yeah, not like a trashy Explore page. For me, it's like even that was just filled with and it's,
Speaker 1 15:52
and it's that, I mean, it's sport pages. It's like everything covers it. It's not just Yeah, page six or something,
Liz Nable 15:58
it's Yeah. So what? What do you what sort so you're now sort of freelancing, and you you work, you know, and you have worked for kids spot, and now you're doing Mamma Mia stuff. Let's talk about kids spot for a second. We haven't had a guest like on this show, or in the course that is been from the kids or parenting, you know, media specifically tell us a bit about that, and the kinds of stories you're pitching now, and what kind of, I guess, consistent content those parent and kids, you know, digital media outlets are looking for these days
Speaker 1 16:31
from, well, it's a bit different, like from a freelance journalist. I think they want to commission me to write opinion and things that are affecting Oh, I kind of think of the line that, what are parents dealing with right now? So I It's back to school. So in my mind, when we're in holidays, it's holiday stories. When you're going back to school for Halloween, Christmas book week, you know, whatever's affecting mums right now, they want to hear about special opinions. When I was a writer, there an editor there, similar thing. If it's what mums are dealing with in the everyday, that's what they want to hear about. They want to hear real life experiences. I think it's changed a little bit. I mean, I was the news writer there, so there's not as much news, but it's very lifestyle and parenting food. They also do a lot of recipes, which obviously is themed and seasonal as the year goes on. So they do a lot of that. It's parenting birth stories, but yes, again, so a lot of first person experiences.
Liz Nable 17:39
So for example, let's say back to school, which is happening, yeah, in New South Wales anyway. But I think it's of similar around the country, yeah, like, like, what to pack in your kid's lunch box? Or, like, rest of back to school. Or, yeah, what are some of the kind of themes that, and I guess you would repeat those themes right, as, yeah, yeah. Students will be like, Oh, but that's I saw that was written about, like, last back to school. I'm like, doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 18:05
Yeah. I mean, don't I would never be afraid to suggest an idea or story idea or pitch, like, just give it a crack. But for sure, it would have to have a more unique angle. If you've seen it already. I wouldn't try and pitch the exact same story, like, hacks are good, just something that's unique, or problem solving as well. Like, how can this help moms? How can this make life easier? Or humor, they share a lot of, you know, funny videos. They even post. And video content is huge for everywhere. So it might even be about getting I know it's so hard to tell small business owners, especially, and maybe working moms that that social media is important, but these sites do reshare reels and tiktoks that are online. But yeah, pitching, I think there's been a shift. That's another shift I don't see as much like evergreen content. That is, here are your best back to school products or I think that's actually quite hard to get into a pitch or get into a story. It has to be. It's just the storytelling that comes from the person, the business owner. I almost put product and sales second, like journalists are not going to write an ad for you. That's not their job, especially for free. So it's about having a story behind it, and which is more conversational or relatable, if someone had a product that makes life easier, because I was annoyed like school hasn't even gone back yet, and I was about to pitch to her about my whatsapp already saying like, five things in the next two weeks that I have to get costumes for and kind of like a friendly reminder book weeks around the corner, you know? So it's kind of a hate
Unknown Speaker 19:55
book week.
Speaker 1 19:57
We've kind of just survived holidays. But then the whatsapp. Me. So it's kind of those stories that are like, oh, like, I feel you. I don't know. It's very hard to put a product or something first or service, but expert advice, I would say, is probably your best bet of getting into, you know, back to school anxieties or how to deal with, yeah, providing a service and expert opinion in some of those seasonal topics as
Liz Nable 20:23
well? Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, maybe even stuff like for women like me, and I'm going to openly say it, I don't care if there's any haters, stuff like book week drives me insane, because I just feel like it's so token because my kids, yeah, come home that morning or the afternoon beforehand, and like my son goes dressed as a footy player every year, which has got nothing. And so I go, what do we really teach it anyway? There's probably
Speaker 1 20:47
other kids. It gives me like, does give me anxiety too, because I at the school who, there's not the soccer player, there's a kid is the paper mache ball, like, you know, there's the DIY outfits. And I want to be that mum, but I just not, yeah,
Liz Nable 21:02
I just can't. And, like, I don't know, maybe I reckon an article, I mean, my kids are a little bit older now, so I probably don't need book week tips. But, like, the top five things to keep in your like, you know, you've got three kids going through book week each year. Perhaps there's some tips for a book week costume kit that can just survive 12 years of, you know, oh
Speaker 1 21:19
my god, yeah. Well, here's my I'm a mom of 10 years, and I've used this. This is my costume that I've worn six times. Like, it's like, a foolproof way, I think, yeah, I think a majority of parents don't like book week, so it's those kind of funny stories, and the stories or mum fails, like, oh my god, I tried to make my book week costume for the first time, and he ended up looking like a whatever, like they're funny, and people laugh at that and click on that because they want to see how bad it is. You know, for a while there was like, birthday cake fails, like constant I don't know why, but they were people loved them. Well, I
Liz Nable 21:54
think people love them because people see, and I teach this a lot inside the course. And obviously there's different reasons. If you're a business owner, there's pitch different kinds of media with different outcomes. So you obviously not pitching a real life story to like, boost sales of your product or your service, but public profile as a parenting expert or whatever your goal is. Yeah, but people like to people like to see themselves in other people. So if someone tells me that they're shitting the kitchen, it makes me feel good, because I'm not great in the kitchen either. So yeah, I can see why those birthday cake fails. I started off baking birthday cakes, and now I just buy them. So
Speaker 2 22:30
yeah, I know I do a mix. They're never good, but I try, and my kids are
Liz Nable 22:34
a little bit older, so like, our WhatsApp groups for my son, who's in year eight, students parents who want to know, like, what the homework was that was assigned, or whether is getting sunscreen applied to them before lunchtime. And that just does my hitting, because I'm just, like, they're 14 years old. Like, surely they can apply, yeah,
Speaker 1 22:55
I know. And you'll and you'll see it as soon as you start seeing, you know, there's, there's so many universal themes in parenting. And we did, and we did, I think quite a while ago, social media went very like, show the relatable moments and show how you're failing. I think it's switched a little bit into this new, I mean, like Trad wives and like Insta perfect there. It's a different vibe. But, yeah, these sites, especially kidspot, do love sharing real life stories, and it's an emotional ones as well, like things with heart or humor or helping, I think is just they're kind of what I if it's gonna, like, inspire someone or help someone or make them laugh, or if it's important, you know, like, people should read about this because it's relevant. It's I try and keep in the back of my mind, yeah,
Liz Nable 23:46
for sure. And I think you could probably get an idea of the kinds of stories somewhere, like kidspot wants just by like, trolling the website for 10 minutes and having a look at some of the repeat themes that you see. You know, yeah, days or weeks or months. You don't have to stop hours and hours, but you can't. You can get an idea of the general format that it follows
Speaker 1 24:05
for sure. And that's like number one tip for anyone pitching you have to do your research. You have to look, look at their websites, look at their social media. Even sign up to their newsletters like they'll usually put probably their best clicking stories in the newsletter so you can see it. And that's free. Just subscribe to their websites. And this is for all publications. Wherever you want to be seen, you have to know what content works for them, see what people are commenting on and sharing and tap into that. You have to know and same with like personalizing emails, knowing who you're writing to. Don't mess up a name. That's an immediate Delete. For me, when I was back writing, I know
Liz Nable 24:48
it's, it's, and I teach that inside the course. And you like, sometimes people like, roll their eyes at me. Like, is this seriously? Like your advice? And I'm like, You have no idea. Every single journalist that has been on this podcast that. Has been their number one pet hate. When someone either spells their name wrong or gives them a generic to whom it may concern, yeah Or yeah, calls them the wrong name or like it's just a very obvious red flag that you haven't done your research yeah
Speaker 1 25:12
and that you're not you're just sending out a blanket email. And when I was writing, I obviously your name gets I had the same email for 10 years, and I must have just got put on every single media list, and I had that. I was so bad at my email inbox, you probably hear this all the time, but I had 1000s of unread emails, so sometimes I was only skim a subject heading and I could tell, and that's not for me. Or then if I got inside it and it didn't say my name or spell incorrectly, or the hook wasn't up early? I'm not interested usually, because I'm just time poor, but you have to really get your stuff right at the top.
Liz Nable 25:50
Yeah. And when you say the hook wasn't up early, what she means is, like, the hook, oh, sorry, yeah. Like, yeah, um, just in case anyone hasn't you know, is new to the podcast and you're not familiar with the kind of words that are used, like the hook is, like the actual angle of the story up the top of the email, so that the journals
Speaker 1 26:05
engage straight away. Yeah? And know what the email is going to be about? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely.
Liz Nable 26:11
So talk, let's talk about a little bit about Mama Mia, what, what's your general sense about you know what they're looking for? I know they've got lots of different verticals and lots of different kinds of ways you can get featured on that site and different kind of sections of the site, but yeah, looking to pitch, what do you see as, I guess, what's what's trending right now? And maybe you know any shifts that you've seen in the in the time that you've been pitching to them and getting
Speaker 1 26:39
published? Yeah, I'm only quite new there, and it's and there's been a few different people I've spoken to who wanted different things to be honest. But again, it's first person essays. The headlines have to be personal, face first. Also good images. But enough, I've already said that, but you always have to have quality images. The story will not work without a human face or a case study. So like going along with that, putting either yourself or whoever at the front of the story, it has to be human first. They do cover a lot. They cover so many different verticals, but obviously it's female led appealing to women, even their age brackets probably quite big. This is just for me, getting them, just looking at the site and reading up about them, because they appeal to kind of Gen Z as well, which I wouldn't say kids spot so much. So Mama Liz definitely on what's happening with Gen Z and micro trends and whatever's trending for them. But then I still think they have a focus, yeah, on working women, career, identity, relationships, divorce, as well as they're also have a parenting the parenting sides probably Yeah, that first person what happened to me in the park, type of story, or, you know, be a relationship. Yeah, divorce is probably big. I see a lot of like or even like in family relationships, mother, daughter, siblings, as well as marriage. So that's probably another topic of interest. But, yeah, they do just a lot of video content, a lot of podcasts. They also cover news, but in a different way, for sure.
Liz Nable 28:27
Yeah, it's almost like cross generational, like you could start, and it's clever. I guess you can start, like becoming an audience, I guess being the audience at Mama Mia from, like, your early 20s, and go right through to Korea. You know, marriage, kids, teenage kids, divorce,
Speaker 1 28:47
retirement, yeah, I'd say that's deliberate, yeah, yeah. They want to cover all their bases, yeah, which it is, and it's just gotta be. I mean, women are online, you know, working moms are online, and breastfeeding moms were sitting, scrolling and, yeah, it's the same thing. It's a Digital site. It's click driven, it's fast. It has to be digestible. That headline in the cell and a little bit leading of, oh, what are they going to talk about, or what are they going to reveal in this story, or that headline sounds like me when I went through this, and what are they going to say about it? So I'll go click.
Liz Nable 29:21
What are your thoughts? Controversial question? What are your thoughts on AI, using AI to pitch?
Speaker 1 29:30
Um, I mean, I haven't seen enough. I don't know. It probably helps people who are not very good at putting words together at all, and if you're not used to writing, it could be helpful, but the problem with AI is there is no human behind it, and what we want is humanity and fear. Feeling and emotion, and you can't get that from Ai, so it can definitely help with structure and maybe your bullet points or what you should talk about. But I wouldn't, definitely wouldn't copy and paste. How do I pitch this? Because it sounds like a computer, not always. You can definitely tweak it. I haven't done enough. I probably need to look at it more, but because I know there's prompts and things that can make it sound a bit better. But what people are engaged in online, and because I can see it in captions now, you know people who write really long captions on Instagram or something, I can tell that it's computer generated, and it doesn't have soul, and we still what was made that Coldplay thing so viral is because it was in like a colleague at Mongolia actually wrote about this is that it was so unguarded and like an A raw human thing that happens on the internet in front of our eyes. So we and the way that that exploded is because we still all want to see it. I mean, obviously that was a horrible thing that everyone kind of indulged in. But emotion, real life, heart, you can't get that in AI and you can read it. You know, when someone's trying to connect, like it's connection, when someone's trying to connect with you on an email, you can just tell straight away, yeah, I'm more
Liz Nable 31:30
responsive. Yeah, I've started to explore AI and just what it can do, because I need to be across it, obviously. So I because I'm teaching students how to pitch, but it's really interesting, because I'm a journalist too, and I love writing, I can slippery slope to just go straight into AI when you know what good looks like when you don't have a base level of understanding. Because you know you and I would be able to go, okay, that pitch is totally AI generated, but yeah, one trained eye, you might be like, Oh, this is spouted out something really clever. I'm just that off, but your audience, that editor or that writer who you're pitching to, will be able to tell right away that no human hand has touched that pitch, and you can definitely use it to generate an idea, maybe, yeah, angles, yeah, stuff like that, like bits and pieces, but you definitely need a base level of understanding, like, exactly what we've talked about today, what's trending, what's engaging, what's interested in how the human mind works, in terms of, you know, like it's, I find it fascinating that the Coldplay incident to me, I ask the as a journalist, I think, why did that go so viral? Like, why is that interesting to people. And obviously, you know, it's like you said, because it's a really raw, unscripted, it was, you know, very in a very public way, their reaction profile, you know, being like a, you know, someone who was a nobody. It probably wouldn't continue to be a story a week later. No, all of that's really interesting, and AI can give you research and facts and and don't get me wrong, it's going to play a role no matter what we do. Yeah, for sure, it's a dangerous place to just play without any kind of peripheral vision.
Speaker 1 33:12
Yeah, because you can write, write like you're talking to your mom or your friend or just try and write it out, write, you know, your story as if you're sharing to someone you care about, instead of just trying to get things that you think might be right or correct. I don't know, it's I like you can buy the warm tone on an email, compared to, you know, very rigid structures paragraph,
Liz Nable 33:41
it's absolutely, I think also that sort of is a good segue to my next question, which is, how important are relationships to you? Now, I know that you're financing for multiple publications or digital publications now, but obviously your relationship with those editors is important. But as let's say, as a business owner or founder or an an expert of some degree, looking to pitch a journalist. How important is creating that relationship before you kind of need them to publish your story.
Speaker 1 34:09
I think it's important. It's because I go back to the same people if I have a relationship with them, so whether that's expert opinion or asking them for a tip or another contact in a field, so not that you want to harass someone, especially when they've said, no, this doesn't work for us, but keeping someone in your loop with your ideas, because I'll go back in my emails and search and what was it? Who was that psychologist that was telling me about this and that? Or someone wrote something about mental health? Mental Health, I'll go dig back in there. So building a kind of relationship, or at least visibility, with a journalist, I think, is important, and then that works as well both ways, with when you if you do, work with them, you respect, you know. The journalists creative license and don't a lot of people would ask to see the copy first, or see a story and want to make changes and and I know it's hard, especially if you're talking about being vulnerable and sharing your own personal story, that is a tricky one, but you have to respect the journalist, and hopefully they're balanced, and they write it in a really respectful way of what you're pleased with. But yeah, I would like be kind to them if you want to keep that relationship, because it is valuable for sure going forward.
Liz Nable 35:33
Yeah, absolutely. And I even I do that when I have relationships with journalists like yourself, or with any of the other guest experts or people I've interviewed on the podcast. You know now that I know who you are and what you do, I would try and feed, particularly my students and my clients their stories to you now with obviously no obligation, because it's never you know. You never get creative license over whether a journalist, that's the whole point of your earned media, right? Yeah, I know that if I give you a few good sources, you're going to come back to me and say, hey. Liz, yeah, I'm doing I've got a, you know, I've got a deadline this afternoon. It's a childcare story. What have you got for me? And I can just use three people, because your time poor, you don't have time to get on the internet for three hours and start searching. And even then, you don't know if the talent's going to be good or they're going to have the right research definitely, you know, they're going to be, you know, good at sort of, you know, the interview process, so
Speaker 1 36:24
yes, and knowing someone, yeah, you can trust and has given you good content or quotes or images or tips, for sure, you will go back to them again. And having a trusted voice, it can be very hard, because everyone posts their reels and thinks they're experts online. It's not like you need that trained expertise or qualifications. You could just be super passionate and viral or well known or have really good things to say, but yet, knowing that they're trusted and great to work with and personable, for sure, is a win, and I'll keep that relationship.
Liz Nable 36:58
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that also a lot of I guess, you know, people who've never really been in the media before, they haven't had their business featured yet, or they haven't really worked much with PRs or journals, don't realize that a journalist needs a good source as much as a good source needs a journalist. So you know, it like, you know, if you come to me and say, Listen, I need sources for this. You know, it's important that that you're not bothering someone by Liz going, listen, I've got this great, you know, student in my course, he's got this great story to tell. What do you think? It's just email, and you might say no to the first three suggestions, and then you're like, actually, you know what? I need this for next week. And so, yeah, it's in persistency and consistency is really important too. I feel like in a measured way, obviously not going to stalk a journalist, but
Speaker 1 37:45
no, and I've given feedback. Even when I had my 1000s and 1000s inbox full, I was happy to give feedback to PRs and people who emailed through saying, This doesn't have a case study, like you know, this doesn't have a face, this doesn't have a person, this doesn't have pictures like you have to so you might even gain some tips, even if your story doesn't get over the line that time, you may get feedback. Some journals and editors will, and that's the benefit as well, absolutely,
Liz Nable 38:15
definitely. I mean, the fact that someone even takes time to reply to you
Unknown Speaker 38:19
is, I know I'm noticing that now,
Speaker 2 38:23
yeah, now you're on the other side. I know it's so different,
Liz Nable 38:26
right? So this has been very insightful, very interesting, and we're really excited to have you inside the course. Have you got maybe any last minute tips before you go about that initial pitch email and like, the fundamentals that it needs to have to even get open. You mentioned subject
Speaker 1 38:43
line before. Oh, yeah, yeah, the subject line has to be relevant. You kind of have to nail that. And, you know, I and I don't get it right all the time. I get lots wrong, and I've can sit staring at a headline for 10 minutes, but yeah, do your research. You have to know the tone, the audience of the publication that you want to be featured in and the editor, I would try and find direct editor emails, rather than a you know, contact us at whatever email or submissions and get the email has to be, the pitch, the hook, the angle that it has to be engaging. It has to be relatable. It has to be a story that you've kind of seen on their social channels, or is, sorry, what did I mean to say? It has to relate to the content that they write. It has to have that, I would put a first person in initially. In most cases, I'm even saving it, seeing it now from brands like proper PR companies, of most of their releases are coming through with that I or we in the headline. It's kind of where it's going, at least that it, it does capture your attention and make you want to find read on a bit more. Know, and yeah, I wouldn't have a very long detailed email. It has to be skimmable and bullet points and easy to people, you know, journals might be reading this on the phone while they're on the phone or eating their lunch. So it has to really jump out at exactly what you want to tell and then don't be afraid to follow up as well, because I might read something and then I forget. Oh yeah, that was a good idea, but I didn't write it down, I didn't flag it, and then it goes missing. So at least one follow up, especially if you don't get a response, is definitely a must. And but don't keep ringing sending
Unknown Speaker 40:40
messages. Don't stalk the journalist. Is
Unknown Speaker 40:45
your father? Follow ups important? Yeah,
Liz Nable 40:47
yeah. Follow up is key. Follow ups with the magic key. I say. Thank you so much, Laura for your time. We're really looking forward to having you inside the next round of the course and sort of doubling down on what we've talked about. I know we've talked a lot about the kind of why in this podcast episode, and then obviously inside the course, we drill down on, like the how, and look at different pitch emails and you know why one would be acceptable over another, and how to tweak those angles and what good looks like. So we're excited inside the course. Okay, well, thank you so much for having me, this episode of media magnet was brought to you by my signature group coaching program, the media masters Academy. The media masters Academy is a live, online, six week course taught by me and designed to teach you how to become your own publicist and give you exclusive access to pitch the country's top journalists and editors. Doors open just three times a year. Check it out at Liz nabal.com along with a ton of free resources to help you get started taking your business from Best Kept Secret to household name right now. If you loved this episode of media magnet, please share it with your business buddies or on social media and tag me at at Liz underscore Nabal. And if there's a specific guest you want to hear from on the show, or a topic or question you want to know more about, please tell me so I can make sure the show stays dedicated, especially for you. You
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
