Liz Nable 0:00
My guest on the show this week is Jessica Yun, the national retail and food reporter at the city Morning Herald. And the age I first met Jess when I randomly emailed her out of the blue about a story she had covered on a large retailer with my opinion on why I disagreed with the sentiment of the piece. Yep, as always, the journal giving my opinion or sharing unsolicited advice. But about 30 seconds later, she called me. She actually thought what I had to say was quite interesting and insightful from a small business perspective. We talked for 40 minutes, and the rest is history. Now she's on my speed dial and I'm on hers, and whenever I can, I flick her story ideas intel from on the ground here in small business land. I refer my MMA students to her to pitch their story ideas. And as you'll hear on this episode, I put her on the spot while we were on air and asked if she'd like to be a guest expert inside the last round of the MMA program for 2025 and guess what? She said yes, aside from sharing her top tips on how to build unbreakable bonds with journals so they'll say yes to your pictures every time. Jess gives us an insider's look at how national stories are chosen and what it takes for a business to get media attention. We go behind the same scenes of her day to day covering iconic Australian brands, and she explains the importance of national relevance in news stories and offers practical, candid advice for business owners and entrepreneurs eager to pitch their stories to major publications. So whether you're a founder aiming for national coverage or you're just fascinated by the intersection of media, business and culture. Jess insights will help you better understand how journalists think and what truly makes a story stand out.
Liz Nable 1:56
Hello and welcome to media magnet, the podcast for female founders and women owned businesses, startups and side hustlers who want to learn how to grow their business leveraging the media and free PR, I'm Liz Nable, and I'm your host, personal publicist. PR, strategist and dedicated hype woman. My goal with this show is to give you a behind the scenes tour of how the media works to break down the barriers between your business and the big mast heads, so you can see how easy it is to get featured simply by giving journalists what they want. At media magnet, you'll also get access to the top journals, editors, writers and PR people in your industry and beyond, sharing their secrets and expertise on the how, why, what and when of pitching and getting featured in the media consistently, I will share with you how to build your reputation as an industry expert so successfully, the media will be knocking down your door. When I first started in small business, 12 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting into. I had spent 15 years as a television news reporter working at several major networks in Australia, and then as a freelancer in the US and around the world. I spent years dividing my time between working long shifts on a news desk and traveling the world, chasing stories. It was unpredictable and exciting until it wasn't anymore. I decided I wanted a life where I was in charge of what happened next and where I was working to build my own empire, not someone else's. There was a lot I had to learn about running my own business, but getting media and great free PR was not one of them. I already knew what the media wanted. I knew the secret formula for what made news, and I knew how to leverage those media outlets to build my business, get more exposure, and ultimately make more sales. I was featured in every major media outlet in the country, and I never spent a single cent on PR. I took that knowledge for granted until it dawned on me one day that I could teach what I knew to other businesses, let them in on the secret, and they too could build their brands with organic media and PR, let me help you take your brand from Best Kept Secret to household name. This is media magnet, the podcast, and I'm pretty pumped to have you here.
Liz Nable 4:34
Jess, thank you for coming on the show. It's an absolute pleasure to have you.
Speaker 1 4:38
Thank you so much for having me. Liz, we just talked
Liz Nable 4:41
before we hit record. We thought we hit record, but we actually had, we me, I thought I had you work for the city Morning Herald and the age, I know it's a very hectic schedule for you, but I know a lot of our viewers are intrigued by that those mastheads, city Morning Herald and the age, can you tell us a little bit about what you do and how I get. If you have a day in the life of Jess, how that works, what the stories you cover?
Speaker 1 5:04
Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, I cover retail and food for the Sydney Morning, heralding the age, and that also includes wa today and Brisbane Times as well. And so, yeah, I mean, it basically means that I've got a very national focus when it comes to what I cover. So a lot of the companies and the brands and the issues and stuff like that that will come into my coverage will be, is this a household name? Is this a business that everybody knows about? So you we're talking Coles, Woolies, pen folds, right Smiggle, rebel sport. I guess I'm plucking out names that have just been really recent and fresh to my mind. Who else one of my favorites? Yoshi. So, yeah, yes,
Liz Nable 5:47
everyone's favorite, if you're a Gen, if you're a Gen alpha or a Gen, what are they? Gen, not Gen Z Gen Zed.
Speaker 1 5:54
Yes, millennials too. Like I it's funny. I will, of course, I'm always wanting to be as unbiased as I can be, right, and as fair as I possibly can be in my reporting. But when it comes to Yoji, like I will very happily, I'm very biased, because I just love the product of the brand so much. You love
Liz Nable 6:17
a $28 bowl of yogurt. Yes, frozen yogurt.
Speaker 1 6:21
But, yeah, essentially, basically, it means that, like, when I look at what a cover, like Kmart, for instance, right? So what I'm covering tends to have relevance for everybody and anyone or the typical Australian, I suppose. And is one of those. One of the considerations that I have when I pick a story is, like, you know, when you hit the pub or when you're chatting with your sister or your neighbor or whoever your best friend, what do you what sorts of things do you guys talk about? What sorts of brands? What do you have in common? What's something that you're going to know and that they're going to know? And that sort of, yeah, really helps me make my decisions in terms of is, is, are millions of people going to be interested in this as well, or is this a little bit too niche for what I do? Which, yeah, I think when it comes to different brands and businesses and stuff like that, reaching out, I think sometimes, yeah, it does mean that a certain business has to maybe reach a certain level or a certain threshold or a certain scale, whether it is like the size of the business. So let's say Hakes, for instance, right? Hague is such a national, beloved Australian brand, so that kind of gives you, yeah, a sense of of what I cover, and why?
Liz Nable 7:32
Yeah. So how do you choose stories? How do you cover stories? Because this audience is going to be largely like, there's a lot of, I think there's a very large audience of women founders who listen to this podcast, business owners, entrepreneurs. There's also men who listen. But I know that they will ask me, and so I will ask you, how could they get featured in on the pages of something like such a highly esteemed media outlet like city morning, her older, the age are you interested in small businesses? Or how do you find stories for your every week.
Speaker 1 8:03
So, so yeah. I mean, part of that answer in terms of how I find stories every week, right, is that there are, yeah, there's plenty of like, national scale retailers that are keeping me busy, right? So that alone, there's no shortage of these businesses that Woolies is doing this, and bloody hell big is doing that. So there's plenty going on in terms of those ASX listed level retailers. But when it comes to small business, I suppose. I mean, I'm definitely interested in covering, yeah, small businesses take up such a huge proportion, right, of the number of businesses that we have in Australia. And these are your like, Mom and Pop. This is, yeah, the life blood that the engine of Australia's economy. So it is really, really important. So I think the way that I would cover those businesses is in terms of trends, right? What one of the things this was when it was really hitting the ceiling, but we're talking about, like, coffee prices. Is a good example of that. Everyone loves reading about coffee in an area that I want to be writing more on. But in in that instance, when all the conversation around coffee prices was and again and again, right? That is a national issue, like we saw. We know that coffee prices around the country, and it's actually International Coffee Day tomorrow for I do have something in the works coming out tomorrow, which is well timed on coffee prices. But again, you know what I mean? Like, that is a like, we all love coffee as a country, we love coffee, but, like, what I've done there with the story tomorrow is to break down by city, right? How much the cost of a latte costs in Brisbane versus the cost of a latte in Perth versus, yeah, you know what I mean, so. But then in terms of other ways in, in how I like write stories and how I'll angle them, is like, what's a, what's a national issue that small businesses everywhere, right, might be facing? So, yeah, it's not so much that I'm necessarily unless they have the level of scale and brand recognition, right? That's national you. Even though this small business might not be there yet. But if you can tell me that the issue that you're struggling with, or this trend that you might be part of is national and is across the board, and that I can look around, and there might be other example, you know what I mean, so then it becomes like a trend story, a retail an industry story. If you can tell me a good story about what's happening, not just about your business, because your business might be one among millions of businesses, right? But if you can show me why it's important and why on a national level we should care about this, then that is the sort of way in, yeah, yeah.
Liz Nable 10:39
So you're saying like, and we teach this inside the course as well, but it's great to have real life examples like yourself and tomorrow. So this podcast will be aired in about a week from now. So it's the 30th of September right now. So if you can look online for jess's Coffee article from the first of October, but I think you're right a way it is in you're looking so a small business owner potentially the opportunity for us to get into the pages of the city morning hall of the age is to infuse our business into what's currently trending in the national news, or to help predict those trends or or to let a reporter like what we can see happening on the ground, because we're the experts in that field.
Speaker 1 11:18
Absolutely, yeah. So I think in terms of how I like to be approached, or what sorts of pitch really sticks, right? Yeah, it don't so much tell me about, if you're still building your brand and building that scale, right? What you can do is you can tell me about, you can tell me about, yeah, you're on the front lines. Right? As a business owner, you are seeing people are, like, not buying this anymore, or they're buying this now, or like people have suddenly, you know, what can you tell me about consumer changes? Right? What can you tell me that's changing in the landscape that I don't know about yet because I'm not running your business, you know what I mean, but you're on the front lines. You have all this insight and knowledge and experience. It's just about fishing out what's really interesting, like, what you're seeing in your business. What does that say more broadly about how national consumption habits are shifting, or like we're really gravitating towards one thing and not another? One of the recent retail industry trend stories that I did was around, I think this was around Black Friday and Cyber Monday, right? And how it's just become this, like global phenomenon, right? And I think it took a couple of years for that momentum to build up as a sales event, you know? But like now, retailers will, any retailer will tell you, like, oh, Black Friday is, is a really significant or key part of the retail calendar, consumers are now also really expecting that companies and brands go on sale or do something for Black Friday. And I like I think something that we saw throughout covid, right because of the cost of living, pressures and stuff like that after covid, is that people were holding back their purchases to wait for these sales events right before they made their purchases. And we all know this, like, why would I buy something full price if I know that? Yes, business is going to go on sale for 30% off. And you know what I mean? Like, I'm just going to wait until it goes on sale. Like we're all doing that. So being able to, I think, wear a small business can really help me is you guys are at the forefront of knowing all of those trends, all of those shifts and stuff like that. Be my sort of eyes and ears. Help me in that way, be a good source and a good contact for me, even though I might not in the first instance, do this amazing, glowing piece on your business specifically. But where I what I can do is I can fit you in as a voice in that right? So you can go Google it if you want, or whatever. But I did a piece this year for Black Friday Cyber Monday. But the way that I did it, it wasn't the angle that I put on it, right? And then, so the angle that I found wasn't that art Black Friday Cyber Monday is becoming a thing, which everybody knows now, right? Yeah, it was that there were some retailers that were like, conscientiously abstaining from Black Friday and Cyber Monday and being like, we are going out of our way to differentiate ourselves because we don't want to play this game. We don't think that our like, our product is a really, really good product, and we don't want to go on sale, and we're putting our stake in the ground. I think it was either that, or there were some retailers that were reluctantly partaking in it, so it was just about finding the nuances, right? So I think that's another way in as well, is that there, there might be some big trend happening, right? And we might all know about that trend, but if you can tell me that something new is shifting, and then there's a little whether it's yourself or somebody else, but like that, there's a little growing group that's bucking the trend that's fascinating to me. Like, absolutely, please come forward, tell me about that, because that will also on my like end. It will differentiate my coverage, because I'm not just writing about the trend that everybody else already knows about, but I'm, yeah, something different, but I. Don't know what I don't know. So this is where I absolutely need the small business owner to come forward and whisper to me what's been
Liz Nable 15:05
going on, absolutely. And I think a lot of small business owners underestimate their level of expertise. They're like, I'm only this I'm so my first business was fitness business. I'm only this one studio operator. What would I know? But I know that I talk about my business and what's happening in my business and my sales and my trends, or what's coming from America, or all that stuff with other business owners in the fitness industry. So you get a collective kind of knowledge over time about what's happening in your industry. And you can, I think, when you're so knee deep in your business, you forget that's you're assuming that everybody else knows what you know and they don't know. And you need to be that source of information to journalists like yourself, because if you can, I think if I'm helpful to you, and I can give you a few kind of tip offs and some information, of course, you're going to come back to me and ask me for more, because your time poor, and you in you, we have this relationship now where you trust that I'm a good a good a good source of information, and I know what I'm talking about. It's really interesting, because that Black Friday sales sort of situation is very similar to what happened in the fitness industry. For a really long time, we conditioned our customers and new people to expect, expect something for free trials, fairly discounted trials. And I just thought for a really long time that was something that was unique to my business, until you start to talk with other business owners and see that everyone's doing it, yeah, and it's, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? So do you follow Anita saka from Hero packaging online? So she's got a podcast. She's great. Jess, you have to follow her anyone who is in small business hero. So she's got two businesses. Essentially, she's got her personal brand, which is Anita saka, so she's a n, a, I T, A, and her business podcast is with another actually lovely entrepreneur, Jess Rufus, who I've had on the podcast. They have a business. They have a marketing podcast, sorry called business at sorry marketing ATM, and they talk about all those marketing trends, and it's so interesting. She actually posted a reel a couple of days ago about the Amazon Prime Day. It was something about how, across the board, like, numbers had plummeted last month, and she couldn't work out why in her business until she did this deep dive on the data and worked out that Amazon had basically done this massive promotion for Amazon Prime Day and cut a big chunk out of the majority of other e commerce businesses online. I find all of that fascinating, but it's also a great way as a business owner to stay up to date with marketing trends and those sorts
Speaker 1 17:36
of things. So yeah, that's fantastic. And see these the Yeah, that's like a such a good example of one of those little it's just a little microcosm of it, one of those daily things that that might happen that you go, Oh, yeah, this is just part of the part of adjusting to to the retail landscape, and part of adjusting to the trading environment and blah, blah, blah. But those sorts of little things that are happening in your world, yeah, can end up being really useful. And you know what? It's also one of those things where, like, coming back to the point about, like, just being useful and sharing tips that might just be happening in your world and what's been going on, but like, you know, tell me about the stories that you want out there, about about your competitors. You know what I mean. And I'm not saying go cultivate a practice of trash talking. I just mean, yeah, you can, if there are certain journalists that you like,
Liz Nable 18:28
you can kind of IHS,
Speaker 1 18:32
but yeah, like, you can build a relationship. I think, I think, yeah, maybe sometimes small businesses don't understand that. It's not so much. Oh, I'm putting my product in front of a journalist, and I'm putting my business in front of the journalist, and why am I not doing anything back or whatnot? It's more just like, start with the journalist, start with the relationship first. Like, really understand, and I was, yeah, telling you a panel about this a couple of weeks ago, but really understand what it is that journalist is covering and why? Like, there were decisions made to cover that thing in that way, and that business, or that brand or whatever, and like some other journalist is going to be covering something else, right? And in our daily news diet, like what I'm reading, what you're reading, the small business owner that's going to be listening to this, that where they're getting their news and what's relevant for them, because what a cafe owner is going to be reading versus what a gym founder is going to be reading versus, oh my God, what's
Unknown Speaker 19:29
another small business
Speaker 1 19:30
tradies versus what a tradies that is going to be reading is different, different, right? Yeah, yeah. So like you, yeah, I think maybe yeah. Don't underestimate. The advice, I guess, is, don't underestimate that. Like, you already know what you like to read. You already know where you go for your news, right? You're going to know where you fit in that. And, like, just keep tabs on the there are going to be certain journalists that you realize, oh, I've read another story. And, like, it happens. To be this reporter again, because they keep covering the same topics, you know what I mean, and then building the relationship from there, and that that's a better way to go,
Liz Nable 20:08
and that's how we met, isn't it? Because I think a lot of people assume that because I was a journalist, all the contacts that I have, I've got this like inside, and I don't I all the journalists that I've cultivated relationships through the podcast or through working with them inside the course have all been hold contacts to me at one point or another. I think I reached out to you and responded to an article that you covered in retail, and then we back and forth a bit about that. And then I saw you at a conference, and I was like, come on the podcast. So it's and I even though, I guess retail and food specifically to my business, I'm a media and PR business doesn't necessarily like earn me brownie points, so to speak, but I love to showcase the businesses that I work with. So that would be where I would be feeding you information to say this is happening, or that's happening, or this person's great talent. Yes, tell me a bit about your inbox. How does someone Okay? How many unread emails? Do you have? This is like a competition on this podcast, because I think Adele biani from The Daily Telegraph had 28,000 unread emails, or something astronomical. Are you looking right now? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 21:14
I've got, like, all these other tabs open, so I'm just opening a fresh tab for Okay, to check.
Unknown Speaker 21:20
How do I
Speaker 1 21:22
just under 20 so i Oh, okay, no, it's not even that bad compared to some others.
Liz Nable 21:28
Yeah, that could be a record. So how does someone get past that inbox? Like, how does someone I guess, if they're they're fresh to you. You don't know them. You don't know their name. They're a brand new like, they're a business owner looking to either create news by pitching a story to you, or to contribute opinion to an existing story or react to whatever's happening in the news of the day, in the retail and food space. How do they stand out in your inbox?
Speaker 1 21:53
I it's very it's quite like immediately obvious when an email is directed to me because it's written to me, versus when it's like, what's it called spray and pray? Yes, yeah, like a media release that's been sent to anybody, right? Yeah. It's very, very immediately obvious from just opening my inbox, which email has been written to me personally, versus, I know I can skip that email because it's about, like, carbon credits or it's about, you know what I mean, cyber security, neither I cover so you could have the world's best pitch in carbon credits or cyber security, but unfortunately, it will not be picked up by me because it's got no relevance. Versus a lot of the emails I send are that I might cold email some random business founder is I'll the email subject is, like, g'day and a coffee, you know what I mean. And it's three sentences. I'm like, Hey, I like what you do, or, Hey, like, I'd love to chat. Not even, doesn't even have to be an interview on the record. I just want to chat and learn more about your business.
Liz Nable 23:02
You know what I mean. So the raw rawer and realer it is, I guess, like, literally, not this heavily scripted email, just
Speaker 1 23:07
oh, if I need to battle through like a page and a half of like a press if I need it like I would in my ideal world, and I'm really giving away my I actually really enjoy these podcasts, because I love to tell people how I would like to do things, if it was I was the king of the world, King anyway,
Liz Nable 23:28
yeah, whatever the non gender that is, yeah.
Speaker 1 23:31
Is that, like, literally, a bunch of dot points, like, bullet points. Sure, send me. I'm not saying don't send me a press release. It never hurts to have a press release like it's just that's extra padding, extra information I can look in one place, and I've got everything, but send me an email that just immediately and quickly tells me why this is relevant to me. You know what I mean? Like, why I should care. Give me a couple of dot points, whether that's just, here's what I can offer you, or here's four different angles, if you don't like this angle, here's a couple of others, and here's what I can give you as well. Yeah. And then that immediately I can understand whether this is anything for me or not. Because, like, for so for example, I mean, might be a bit different, because obviously, Hakes is a national brand, yeah, it's always going to be interested in that. But, like, for instance, a chocolate so we do love chocolate. Yeah, we do love chocolate. A couple months back, they sent out some media releases that was like, they've announced a new CEO, like the old CEO was stepping down and the new CEO was going to take their place. And so I didn't want to do the initial sort of story off a press release, because I'm like, everybody's everyone's got the press release. There's nothing new to that, right? But what I did say was, like, can you let me, like, let line up a chat with me and the CEO, and then we can just, like, chat about the business and, like, his vision and where he wants to take it and better, bring better, boom. And then that's so much of a better it might. Like a couple of weeks or months down the track before the story is actually published, but it's a much better read that people might come back to after some time to be like, Oh, what's going on with hagues? Rather than just like a what one of my editors used to call, like a one fact story. He's a new CEO.
Liz Nable 25:16
So is it more like a personal story on the CEO that you ended up doing?
Speaker 1 25:20
I think that in terms of how like, what I would like is that I often might get pitched a certain pitch, but if the business is interesting to me, or the founder, or the person or something is interesting to me, I will pick up the phone or email back and be like, Hey, I'm not going to do this angle that you've pitched me, but can I just have a chat? Can we just chat generally, can we just tease something up and then, just because I'm going into this with an open mind, and don't want to be I get that a business founder or a PR or someone has a certain pitch in mind, and that's their job to pitch something. But my job is to find the most interesting story and to get as full of a picture as possible of what's going on before I necessarily commit to a certain angle. Because if I don't have that big chat to understand, actually understand what's going on. How can I know that thing that you know that angle that's being pitched to me Yeah, is the
Liz Nable 26:25
most Yeah. And often that PR angle is very glossy and manufactured and boring. We want the nitty gritty. We don't
Speaker 1 26:32
Yes. So on that actually, if I can add that, I would love like, numbers as well. And yeah, plenty of people that that say that I don't want to just know that your business is going well, right? I want to, I'm going to want to ask you questions about, what's what's revenue, like, what's profit? Like, how much if you refuse to give me that, can you tell me? Like, have sales increased 97% I need something concrete to hang off on. It's pretty hard to get you know what I mean, to sell me, like, Hey, here's my amazing business. But I won't actually tell you, like, yeah, how amazing it is. And then so it's, yeah,
Liz Nable 27:07
yeah. It needs to be a story. There needs to be some facts, and it needs to be backed up with Yeah, like, bit of intrigue and personal opinion, all that stuff. Tell me about a bit more. Haven't done a lot of, like, food coverage or being involved. When you say you do retail and food, what does food mean Exactly? What kinds of stories are you covering there, and what stories are you looking
Speaker 1 27:29
for? Yeah, so food means, like, food companies. So technically, my round, it's pretty, like, flexible in that if I just took a shine to something, there's not really, like a hard, fast rule where it's like, I'm not allowed to write about something, right? So you my remit, I guess, is retail, it's food, it's beverages, it's agri, agribusiness, and, like, everything in between. So when I talk about food, I'm talking about again, yeah, food businesses. So this is where you've got your pen folds, you've got your beaker, you've got your Yochi, you've got your Guzman and Gomez, right? You've got your, like, Mac is, you've got Tucker Bell, like, these Taco Bell, which kind of is an interesting because Guzman and Gomez did such a good job that Taco Bell is no more. So, yeah, so it is, if not again, if not at that, like, level of national recognition or national scale, it's a trend that is, that's where Yochi comes in, right? And then, let's say with Starbucks. Starbucks is a global, obviously, such a global brand, but, like, it's really funny that one of the things in Australia, we're quite proud of, the fact that for ages, Starbucks couldn't turn a profit. Like, it just couldn't make it work here, right? Yeah. So part of what was really interesting for me was to like, actually, and people might not like it, but it's still interesting that, oh, here's this interesting, like, this the trend wasn't so much, sorry, the story wasn't so much about Starbucks. It was about Starbucks, but it was about coffee. It was about how Australians drink coffee. It was about this culture that we have, that we are so attached and so embedded, so like, when you we can, yeah? So you can see now a trend where, when we hook on, when we're covering food, it's not so much like, just the not so much about a product, right, but it's like, it's that we're all into, like, before GYG, what was Mexican food in Australia? Do you get what I mean? Yeah, much about this trend? Like, what can you tell me about? Yeah, how as a country, we're eating differently, sort of,
Liz Nable 29:24
yeah, no, and that's interesting, because equally, why, as Australian coffee has done well in the US. Now, I lived in the US for six years from 2006 but it struggled to take off because Americans see the their relationship with coffee is different to ours, that they want to drink coffee and get a result, whereas we've got coffee is like a cultural thing for us. It's a you go for a coffee to discuss things, and it's, yeah, I do find that fascinating too. Maybe that's just us, because we're journalists and
Speaker 1 29:53
we're fascinated by this picture. Coffee is so universally like, yeah, it's Australia. We love drinking. Drinking coffee in Australia. We love reading about coffee in Australia.
Liz Nable 30:03
So yes, yes, coffee, interest rates, property.
Unknown Speaker 30:08
Oh, yeah, bullies.
Liz Nable 30:10
So tell me before we go, I'm going to let you go because we're actually recording this quite not late at night, but we don't, I don't normally record the podcast tonight, and I've pulled you in after work, so I'll let you go home, but tell me a bit about the follow up. So if someone's a lot of the students inside my course like this amazing idea, and everybody loves their own you pitch ideas and that sort of thing, they get attached to them, which is fabulous, but very deflating when you don't hear back from a journalist, which is not uncommon. But I think when you're not used to that, it can be hard to know, do I follow up? When do I follow up? Are they just not interested? Do I take that personally? What's your take on that, and what's the best way to follow up with you?
Speaker 1 30:49
So I think, yeah, I mean, I can totally understand, for somebody who obviously doesn't have a first hand experience of how media works, it absolutely is, and it's, yeah, funny because we would, we were just saying that because we're in the world, we forget that like it's not, it's not easy as ABC for everybody else, because this is our day to day, but it's not day to day for everyone else. So yeah, totally understand that. Yeah, it is quite a deflating or can be a deflating experience when you don't hear back. I think in the first instance, have take a beat and think about, okay, did I truly tailor this pitch to this journalist? You know what I mean, am I am I like, does this journalist really actually cover this thing that I'm pitching? You know what I mean, what are my reasons for believing that this journalist is going to be interested in this right? So it's to really be, like, very, very honest with yourself and your pitch and to, like, actually be like, have I, have I not sharpened this? Or can I pitch this in another way? Or do I pitch this to somebody else who might be really interested in it, because somebody else is covering the sort of thing that you're pitching, right? So I think the first step is to review that, and then to, if you're like, yeah, absolutely follow up. There's no harm. It's free to send an email, it's free to read an email, so there's absolutely no harm in following up. But I think obviously, if the first time didn't seem to stick, do something different in the second time, bring out a different angle, or just offer me something different that wasn't just a repeat of, hey, I don't know if you saw this or not. Let me know. You know what I'm saying.
Liz Nable 32:26
So yeah, they need it. They need to make it something. There's needs to be a sense of urgency for you to want to cover that now.
Speaker 1 32:33
Well, yeah, whether it's exactly, if it's urgent, yeah, then I don't know. Like, it's really hard to say, because how many things are really Yeah, that urgent, I suppose, yes, yeah, come back with a something different to offer, even if it's just hey, just following up. I would just love to grab a coffee. You know what I mean, even that just takes the pressure off, because it's then the conversation is not so much like, why aren't you covering this thing that I think is really important, but it's just, Hey, what are you up to? Can I buy you a coffee? I would love to chat, and then that way, if we can have a coffee, then I can again, it's coming back to building the relationship, right? Then I can meet you. I can understand, okay, your world is being a trainee, or your world is being a coffee roaster, or your world is like, owning a gym or something, and then I'll find out. Okay, what is it that you know in your world that could be interesting to you? Know what I mean? And so a lot of the contacts that I have developed tend to be like, like, an expert voice, right? That can that, like, I've obviously got people on my phone, on speed dial that's like, Alright, I need to somebody to comment on this retail trend, or on this business or on this thing, and I know that this person is good to pick up the phone and just and be able to give me some comment and isn't worried about like they're not let me. Let me go and consult my phone, come back to me, like, three days later that the time passed. So I think it's more just about my best advice would be for, yeah, PRs or small business founders, or whatever, to know what the expertise is. And you know what your expertise is. You know what I mean, yeah, what you can talk about, what issues, what your opinions are. You know what I mean? You know that, oh, this thing is happening, or the government is, like, not pulling its weight in this regard, or this piece of legislation is really bad, or like, this rule, or that other business, and it's really unfair. You know what's going on. You know what's happening. So all that is just like telling me about that, yeah, and
Liz Nable 34:30
being patient with that relationship, because if you want to build that expert voice and be on your speed dial, that takes a little bit of time. And I always say Be patient, because if I can feed you some information. Over three or six months, I will become that person that you start to call and say, I know Liz is going to give me good information about what's happening with small business owners and the cost of living, or that relationship takes time. It can't just be like, Why aren't you covering my story? I emailed
Speaker 1 34:55
you totally. Yeah. Highway, straight 100% I think that's really right. Play the long game, and think of it as as journalists are juggling like, 17 balls in the air. You know what I mean? Yeah, my problem, which is a good problem to have, isn't, isn't that I, like, don't have enough stories, it's that I've got too many stories, and I'm like, in paralysis because I'm like, Ah, where do I look? You know what I mean? But so if Yeah, I like, we we definitely need patience as well. I can be really bad at replying to my emails. Sometimes even the ones that I want to reply to. I'm just like, doing something else. Definitely think of it in terms of that relationship and being like, okay, like, how can I in my lane and what I do? How does this provide extra insight and extra expertise, and again, an extra set of like, eyes and ears in the ground for this reporter that is covering stuff in my world. How can I feed them little tidbits and little bits of information? And then when that relationship is there, I will come to you and be like, hey, yeah, can you sound out your clients to find out if anybody's dealing with XYZ? Or be like, the expertise that you've given me is really good. Either I'll come back and keep calling you for that expertise or or I'll want to do something like a story on your business itself. Yeah, yeah. I think that relationship is a really good way to go about.
Liz Nable 36:08
Yeah, it's important to be patient. Just I could talk to you all night about this, but maybe people don't want to listen to us talk about the ones I reckon you've got
Speaker 1 36:16
one or two more questions. If you want to ask me any more questions, feel free to, because I'm, well,
Liz Nable 36:21
I would love to have you as an expert inside the course, and I'm just going to put you on the spot there, because we're recording, so you don't have to say yes or no to me, right now. What does that entail? That entails you jumping on inside? Well, the next call starts on October the 14th, so the doors open on October the 14th, and we would do this, but you would be with. You would be you on zoom with a bunch of my students, and they pitch you their story ideas. And you can give them feedback, tell them if they're on the right track, if they're not on the right track, you can give them like, skew them in the right direction, help them, like, flesh out those pitches. Or if they're amazing, which they normally are pretty good, by the time we get to the pitching section of the course, they'll be pitching you some pretty good intel, and you'll be saying, Would love to cover that story, but there's no obligation to, obviously, because we know that earned media is objective media. So you can mull over that while I
Speaker 1 37:14
yeah, why don't we? Then in a I'm sure we'll be chatting again very Yes, let me sit on that. Let me say, Okay, how long would it be like? How is this
Liz Nable 37:22
60 Minutes online? Oh, yeah, by the time this is published, we have an answer for you, everybody. We'll be pitching Jess Yun from the Sydney Morning
Unknown Speaker 37:34
decide the next round of the course could be possible. Alright?
Liz Nable 37:39
Thank you so much, Jess, been such a pleasure. Now I'm going to share your email, if that's okay, in the show notes, so that business owners can pitch you their story ideas, or maybe just take you for a coffee. There's lots of really intriguing, interesting businesses that follow along on this podcast, so hopefully good sources of information for
Speaker 1 37:55
you. Beautiful, yeah. I hope that's yeah. I hope what I've said has been useful. I feel like I've just yapped and yapped and yapped, which is the mark of a good journalist, when
Speaker 2 38:05
they just Yeah. Love talking about what they do, chatting.
Speaker 1 38:09
That's pretty much it. And yeah, I think my final sort of bit of advice, if you can call it that, it's just yeah, don't forget that, yeah, a journalist is just really curious to know what it is that you can share with them, like they, they are just really interested to learn, yeah, what's going on in in your world, and just like your genuinely like your thoughts and your take on something, or your experience of something. So I know that it can be really scary dealing with journalists, and some journalists are really scary to deal with. But yeah, like, I know that. I think sometimes, from a journalist perspective, there's nothing that's a little bit more painful than when you're interviewing someone and then they don't they do it's like, they don't really want to talk to you. Yeah, they don't give you anything, yeah. And I'm just like, Oh, why are we here? Why are we doing this? And you can take your time with it as well. You can say to a journalist like, okay, look like it's a conversation. I'm not sure what that means. Or can we take this off the record, or this is my first time doing an interview, or whatever, but yeah,
Liz Nable 39:06
you're not scary. Jess, you're gonna get lots of pictures after this. It's been such a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much for your time. You're a legend for giving me your time so late at
Speaker 1 39:15
night. Thank you so much. Hope that was helpful. This was so much fun.
Liz Nable 39:20
This episode of media magnet was brought to you by my signature group coaching program, the media masters Academy. The media masters Academy is a live, online, six week course taught by me and designed to teach you how to become your own publicist and give you exclusive access to pitch the country's top journalists and editors. Doors open just three times a year. Check it out at Liz nable.com along with a ton of free resources to help you get started taking your business from Best Kept Secret to household name right now. If you love this episode of media magnet, please share it with your business buddies or on social media. And tag me at at Liz underscore Nabal. And if there's a specific guest you want to hear from on the show, or a topic or question you want to know more about, please tell me so I can make sure the show stays dedicated, especially for you. You
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