EP 4 - Megan Dalla Camina FINAL
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Liz Nable: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Media Magnet Summer series. This episode features author, speaker, and women's leadership expert, Megan Dalla Camina, whose career has unfolded in three very distinct seasons, performer and creative global corporate executive, and now founder and small business owner. Megan shares how she went from acting and dancing into senior marketing and strategy roles at companies like ge, PWC and IBM, and how a major burnout in her.
Thirties, completely reshaped her sense of purpose and the kind of work she wanted to do in the world. Across this conversation, Megan talks honestly about what it really looks like to leave a big corporate career and build a values-driven business as a single mother. And why Founder land is both exhilarating and demanding.
She explains why creativity can't just be something you squeeze in around the edges. How she's written four books while running a business, and the intentional decisions that allow her to keep creating instead of getting lost in the day-to-day [00:01:00] grind. If you are a woman-led business founder or entrepreneur who feels like you're constantly on the treadmill of survival mode, this episode will feel like a deep exhale.
Megan breaks down what all those big leadership phrases like stepping into your power and showing up as your authentic self actually mean when you don't have a corporate budget and HR or leadership offsite and you're just trying to pay the bills and grow your business. You'll hear her reframe leadership as self-leadership and talk about how clarity on your values, vision and purpose becomes the filter for your boundaries, your opportunities, and the way your business feels day to day.
This is a powerful conversation about alignment agency and building a business that supports the life you want. Not the other way around. Settle in for a thoughtful, encouraging, and very real discussion with Megan Dalla Camina.
Hello and [00:02:00] welcome to Media Magnet, the podcast for female founders and women owned businesses, startups, and side hustlers who want to learn how to grow their business, leveraging the media and free pr. I am Liz Nale, and I'm your host, personal publicist, PR strategist, and dedicated hype woman. My goal with this show is to give you a behind the scenes tour of how the media works to break down the barriers between your business and the big ma heads.
So you can see how easy it is to get featured simply by giving journalists what they want at Media Magnet. You'll also get access to the top journals, editors, writers, and PR people in your industry and beyond sharing their secrets and expertise on the how, why, what and when of pitching and getting featured in the media consistently.
I will share with you how to build your reputation as an industry expert so successfully. The media will be knocking down your door. When I first started in [00:03:00] small business 12 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting into. I had spent 15 years as a television news reporter working at several major networks in Australia, and then as a freelancer in the US and around the world.
I spent years dividing my time between working long shifts on a news desk and traveling the world chasing stories. It was unpredictable and exciting until it wasn't anymore. I decided I wanted a life where I was in charge of what happened next and where I was working to build my own empire, not someone else's.
There was a lot I had to learn about running my own business, but getting media and great free PR was not one of them. I already knew what the media wanted. I knew the secret formula for what made news, and I knew how to leverage those media outlets to build my business, get more exposure, and ultimately make more sales.
I was featured in every major media outlet in the country, and [00:04:00] I never spent a single cent on pr. I took that knowledge for granted until it dawned on me one day that I could teach what I knew to other businesses. Let them in on the secret, and they too could build their brands with organic media and pr.
Let me help you take your brand from Best Kept Secret to household name. This is Media Magnet. The podcast and I'm pretty pumped to have you here.
Megan Dalla Camina. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today.
Megan Dalla Camina: So good to be here. I'm excited for our chat.
Liz Nable: Yeah, and I know everyone always says that, but truly, uh, when I saw you on stage at Forbes a few months ago, I was like, right, I'm gonna get her email. And I mean, this is what I do in media anyway.
I just email people and ask the question and you said yes. So I am really excited to have you here.
Megan Dalla Camina: Yeah, no, [00:05:00] I'm thrilled. Can't wait to get into it.
Liz Nable: Um, okay. So much to talk about, but let's start with your backstory because obviously the audience on my podcast is a lot of women-led businesses, founders, small to medium sized businesses.
Tell us a bit about how you got started in your career and then kind of what led you to now.
Megan Dalla Camina: Okay, so backstory, I, uh, it's kinda like three seasons, right? As most of us have. Um, I grew up as a actress and a dancer, and a performer and a writer, and I thought that was my whole future, um, up until I was 24 ish and hit my corporate career completely by accident.
And in marketing spent, uh, nearly 18, more than 18 years in big corporate roles. Ge, P-W-C-I-B-M, all over the world. Uh, in big marketing roles. Uh, and then in head of strategy role for, for IBM. And when I was there, I was doing a lot of work around, [00:06:00] uh, women, gender diversity, leadership, creating cultural change whilst I was head of strategy for this $5 billion business.
And that was my day job, but I was job crafting and bringing in these other pieces that I was passionate about. Had a major burnout, um, in my mid thirties. That kind of changed the trajectory for me, um, of my career, my purpose, my work, even though I spent another seven years at IBM, um, in a part-time executive capacity.
And then third season, uh, I am now a small business owner. A founder. All of those things that you said, uh, for 11 years. So I've been in, you know, I segued out of my corporate career via long service, leave that sort of sabbatical safety net. Uh, which was really important 'cause I, a single mother had a young child at the time and yeah, into this
Liz Nable: wow,
Megan Dalla Camina: crazy world we call founder land, which is [00:07:00] why I'm in Wow.
Liz Nable: That's awesome because I think, um, I, I love that your career has spanned so many kind of different, um, turning points and industries, because I know when I was, you know, in my early twenties, I thought that, um, I, I'm probably, you kind of remind me a little bit of my journey 'cause I felt like I had a creative side, but I also had like a BI really loved business as well, but I was like, well, you can't do both.
And you can do both, can't you?
Megan Dalla Camina: You can. I find that certainly in my journey and you know, I support thousands and thousands of women every year. You have to be intentional about it.
Liz Nable: Yeah. '
Megan Dalla Camina: cause especially as a small business owner, uh, and I've written four books. I've just, I'm literally in the final type set proof for the fourth book.
You if you don't get intentional about it and make it a priority. It's very easy as you know, as a small business owner to just get [00:08:00] sucked in to the marrow of running the business. Um, and that's certainly been my journey as well. I've had to be very, um, intentional and specific around where does this fit.
Hmm. When is it, uh, like creativity is always a priority, but when is creation? Um, a priority and how do I make that work? Yeah. Um, as well as run my business and look after my kid and, you know, do all of the other things.
Liz Nable: Yeah. And that's so true, and we can talk about that a bit later in terms of like building your reputation as an industry expert in the media or on stage or whatever that might be, because I do feel like that needs to be intentional as well.
Yes. Particularly if that's something that you enjoy in your business. It can't just be like a stab in the dark every couple of years, um, you know, that built over time. Talk about that. Yeah, let's talk about that. So I wanna de uh, I guess debunk some. I'm, I'm not a really a corporate gal. Like I think I'd probably get, um, I probably shouldn't say that on a podcast just in case I ever apply [00:09:00] for a corporate job, but I dunno if I'm suited for a corporate situation because I've been an entrepreneur for so long.
Yeah. Um, and so when I hear a lot of these terms, thinking about my audience, women led businesses, entrepreneurs, startups, et cetera. I know I'm going like, it's all well and good to be in a big corporation and there's heaps of cash in the budget and there's leadership conferences and there's executive teams to talk about women in leadership and the opportunities and you know, big catchphrases like step into your power and like show up as your true, authentic self.
But my BS rater just goes, but what does that actually mean? And how in my own business am I gonna have any moment when I'm not? Deep in survival mode, just trying to pay the bills and grow my business, have the luxury of doing those things as a fit. I know that I should long term because I do have an opportunity as a, as a women-led business to be a leader.
How do you, what do those things mean and how do you apply that [00:10:00] when you run your own business? If it's not a big global conglomeration?
Megan Dalla Camina: Okay, so let's de I love this question. Let's debunk the other side of that first. Right. Okay. 'cause what I would tell you from all of the women, uh, that I have and do support who are in corporate roles, they feel exactly the way that you feel in your own business.
Liz Nable: Yeah. Wow.
Megan Dalla Camina: Right? So they're scrapping, they're on the treadmill, they're. Not in control in a lot of ways of their own destiny. 'cause they have managers and hierarchy and structure and bureaucracy and all of that, right? Um, so just, yeah, so there's like both sides of the equation. And for me it all comes down to womanhood, right?
Like for us as women, how do we self lead? So take out all the fancy leadership terms, how do we lead ourselves? In the most aligned kind way possible.
Liz Nable: Hmm.
Megan Dalla Camina: That, for me [00:11:00] is the core of all of the work that I do and teach, doesn't matter who I'm teaching it or coaching or writing about. Um, so if you throw out all the terminology and just get to the core as business owners, as, as women led businesses.
What is that for us? And for me, stepping into your power, owning your power, and your agency, being a leader of yourself before you are leading anybody else is about clarity of who you are and your values and your vision for your life and your vision for your business.
Liz Nable: Mm-hmm.
Megan Dalla Camina: So often we are running so fast on the treadmill that we don't stop.
To really think about, I'm actually driving this in the right direction and does my life feel the way I want it to feel while I'm in my business? Like, I struggle with that as well. Um, and like how aligned am I to what I'm, to what I really feel is my [00:12:00] purpose for work in my business. Because when we are anchored into those things.
Then it is easier for us to set boundaries, then it's easier for us to press pause on the treadmill, say yes to the right things, say no to the other things, and be really intentional while we're doing it. So yeah, for me it's less about the terminology and, you know, um, and all of that, and more about who are we, what do we want, how are we creating that for, for ourselves in alignment with who we want to be in the world.
Liz Nable: Is alignment when you're in a business, you know, perhaps you're in a business with your husband or your family, or you're running your own business and you are deep in the trenches like many of us are in the small to medium business category. Yeah. Is alignment a luxury? And if, and if, and if you are starting to think about that, like, am I aligned?
Like am I just paying the bills? 'cause you can get lost in your own business just doing it, right? Yes. And if you are not, if you're not aligned, if you're like, why am I doing this? This is not [00:13:00] really, I'm not happy. I, I don't wanna, how do you shift that alignment when you. You need to pay the bills, like yes, I know that's a very big question, but I think about that often because we are, you know, a lot of us are our business powers, the house we pay for families, we pay for mortgages.
Like how do you bring that into real life?
Megan Dalla Camina: So the first thing is to understand at, at its best, and I just wanna acknowledge how hard it is, right? Like I'm in the trenches. Yeah. I run a small business. Uh, we serve a big audience, but we're, we're a small team, you know, with, with a lot of responsibilities. So, like, I fully understand what you are asking.
Um, the first thing is to really think about if my business was at its best. I was really doing what I truly wanted to be doing. What would that look like?
Liz Nable: Mm.
Megan Dalla Camina: Like I think that's such a powerful question. Um, and that doesn't mean that all of those things are gonna happen.
Liz Nable: But it
Megan Dalla Camina: does [00:14:00] mean that you are tapped into what does alignment look like?
Yeah. Alignment with my values, how I wanna feel in my business, how many hours I wanna work, the types of clients I wanna serve, how much money I wanna make. Right. Do all the things. Yeah. Um, at some, at some points in our business, and this is certainly true for, um, you know, when you're starting a business, it's certainly true at times when you are scaling a business or you're pivoting a business.
You do go into that sort of survival, let's batten down the hatches, get the money in the door.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: So it's also recognizing what season am I in? Yeah. Am I in a startup small business phase where it's like, where's the money? Like when I left corporate, you start your business. Where's the money? Yeah.
Where is the revenue? I'm a single parent. I've just given up my. Big corporate income, where's the money? So what season are you in? But when we have that sort of division, that [00:15:00] also evolves of those questions.
Liz Nable: Yeah,
Megan Dalla Camina: we have that checkpoint, we have that place where we can come back and say, oh my God, this feels like shit right now.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: Okay. Let's come back.
Liz Nable: Mm. You
Megan Dalla Camina: know, what's in alignment? What's out of alignment? What needs adjustment? What can I control right now? What can I control right now? 'cause I'm paying the bills or I'm making payroll. Um, that's why it's so important. Mm-hmm. And then we can get into, you know, adjustment as we go.
Liz Nable: So you're moving towards alignment. I see exactly what you're saying. So alignment might not necessarily be instantaneous, but if you've got an idea in your mind about what that looks like, you can subtly move to alignment. So you might have started your business and not necessarily be serving the clump customers that are your ideal customers, but you need to pay the bills.
But you know who that ideal customer is, and over time you're moving towards that. Am am I got that? Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: And that's a great example of an alignment decision. Mm. You know, there's, when you, when you're in a position where you can, [00:16:00] there's, there's three clients in front of you. If you're a coach, three clients in front of you that wanna work with you, getting into alignment is not about how much they're gonna pay you, it's about who's in alignment with my values, how I want to coach, what I want, my business, the conversations I wanna have, et cetera.
That's an alignment choice. Um, alignment choices around who you hire. Which partners do you work with? Um, how, how, uh, many hours do you work in a day? How you call some of that time back. They're all alignment choices.
Liz Nable: Yeah. I love that. Okay. And what about terminology, like stepping into your power? Can we do the same thing?
Let's break that down and go, what does that mean? Is that a luck, like, you know, there's lots of fancy words out. I mean, this is, yeah. I'm sure you're well aware of all of them.
Megan Dalla Camina: Yep. What does that mean? Yeah, so, so I think this is a really powerful, this is very powerful terminology. Um, and at the base of everything that I do, that is the question, right?[00:17:00]
How are you in your power? How do you get into your power and alignment is part of that, um, when you are in your power, meaning when you feel. However you wanna feel. You know, for me, calm, grounded, you know, in control. I have agency over what I'm doing. There's freedom, like what are those words for you? Um, being in your power is living in alignment with that, right?
So yes, there's terminology, again, all these fancy words and phrases and all the rest of it. But at the base, core of it is. Do I feel like I'm a sovereign woman? Am I in my sovereignty? Am I, uh, do I have agency over my life, my choices, uh, the direction that I am heading? That's what's at the core of when you hear these phrases step into your power and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
For me, that's what it means. And the [00:18:00] clarity. So in terms of the building blocks of that, to break it down, you know, I always come back to clarity first, which for busy women can be incredibly difficult.
Liz Nable: Hmm.
Megan Dalla Camina: Uh, you know, in the, in the work, uh, in my, my main program, women Rising, the first thing that we do is life, vision and meaning and purpose.
And about 95% of women have no idea.
Liz Nable: No.
Megan Dalla Camina: Right. And that's thousands and thousands of women, right? We've had seven and a half thousand women in three years. So that's a big data sample. Um, about 95% of women. And why? Because we are so busy. We are on the treadmill. We're taking care of all the people, we're doing all of the things.
There's just no space for us in that scenario. And I know this is true for, for business owners. Um, so the first piece is always clarity. Like how do you pause for long enough? To ask the question, what do I want my life to look like? What do I want my [00:19:00] business to look like?
Liz Nable: Mm-hmm.
Megan Dalla Camina: And get real clarity around that.
That's the first step of stepping into your power.
Liz Nable: Mm-hmm. Tell me a bit more about the work that you do with women and what you've seen. Because obviously you are, you know, you've covered thousands and thousands of women over your time in your own business. Um, and then obviously the women inside the programs that you run.
I've noticed since I've started this business, um, that women, and only because every now and again I'll get like a, a, a man in the course, which is fine, but that I never really realized before. Again, because I haven't worked in a big corporation for a really long time. I was like. Gender inequality. I, I of, of course I know it's a thing, but I've never really noticed the difference in habits between men and women like I do now.
You know, working with women, they're so commonly minimize their success. They feel weird about [00:20:00] self-promotion. They feel awkward to even like articulate an achievement. What's your experience inside the program with what you've noticed about what women inherently do? Um. In their habits and their behaviors and the way they think that sort of minimizes and, and does those sorts of things.
Megan Dalla Camina: Yeah, great question. Um, so like, there's a couple of really consistent things that we see and there's so much data and research around this. I've just like it'ss all in the book. So like I've just been like immersed for the last 12 months in the. More data and research. Um, and there's a couple of really consistent things that come up for women.
One is the clarity piece that we just talked about and the stories that come up with that. I'm not worth it. I don't have time, I don't have space. I've gotta take care of everyone else. I've gotta be the good girl, the good mother. Yeah. Like all of those stories around why we don't stop and pause. And [00:21:00] give ourselves the space.
So that's a very common underlying theme that we have to address first. Um, the, the, the difference between men and women in, uh, confidence, uh, the inner critic. That is a big part of the work that I teach. And, you know, what are your inner critic stories, your beliefs, how do they impact your actions? And all of that work is much louder.
And more persistent in women and stops women from taking actions more than it does from what we see from the research around men. Doesn't mean men don't have an inner critic. Of course they do.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: But it shows up differently. It's less. Less entrenched. Mm. And that's the, I don't wanna speak up. I don't wanna go and be in the media.
I don't want to like, fill in the blank all of the things. I'm gonna minimize myself. I'm gonna play smaller than I necessarily want to. Um, [00:22:00] you know, we see that women consistently hit up against gender biases, but so often don't realize. That they're hitting up against a gender bias.
Liz Nable: Mm.
Megan Dalla Camina: So they think it's just them.
Liz Nable: Mm. And it's like,
Megan Dalla Camina: oh, this is a problem with me. So they shrink back. And when you know, that happens consistently and again, and again and again, and they don't make that connection to, well, this is. Patriarchal hangover or this is, uh, a power paradox that's happening because I'm a working mother.
Liz Nable: Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: We, we take it on, we go into shame and blame and we quieten ourselves down even more. And then it gets harder to speak up or harder to go into the press or harder to, yeah. Do those things. 'cause we're so tied up in our inner critic stories. Mm. Um, so like, that's a really massive part of, uh. The challenges.
Mm. And, and women, [00:23:00] um, fulfilling their purpose, showing up in the world how we really wanna show up versus how we've been told to show up. Mm. Those gender expectations and norms for how we're expected to show up, um, and how all of that impacts our own psyche, our own narrative, our own willingness and ability to step forward.
Liz Nable: That's so interesting because, you know, with the work that I've done inside my course and, and the media pr business, I, I have noticed obviously everything that you are talking about. But I've also gone de a little deeper, not, not intentionally, but with interviewing different people on the podcast and that sort of thing.
Um, and I recently interviewed Angela Priestley. I'm not sure if she was on your panel at I know an very well, yeah, yeah. And so we were talking about. A lot of women that I, and I actually honestly never thought about the work that I did like this, but the more women we can get to show up authentically, pitch the media, get featured, [00:24:00] write a book, um, put themselves out there, we have a, I feel like we almost have this responsibility to each other now, because if we all minimize and shrink, then we are gonna be in the same place in 10, 15, 20 years from now.
How do women get beyond that? I mean, I know this is a huge question. We're not gonna answer this in the podcast episode. I know that for myself, I would say I'm relatively confident person, but even I, when I first started this business, had those thoughts, people are gonna be judging me. What if people don't like me?
What if people are thinking, well, how would she know? But I helped by telling myself, well, I know that I have. Value to share. So I'm just gonna think about it as adding value and that's how I kind of got over my imposter syndrome. Yeah. Um, and then once you've got the business and the customers, it's less so are there any tips you can give women who are just constantly sort of holding back from their true potential because of those inner critic thoughts [00:25:00] and the imposter syndrome?
Is there any sort of tips we can give women to help them kind of overcome that while they're on that path to, to confidence?
Megan Dalla Camina: So this is one of the biggest, uh, challenges and opportunities for women is to do the work around their inner critic and to under, to understand and acknowledge why they are holding themselves back.
Because there's the, like, let's be really clear. There's the external. And the way I frame it in the book, and we can have another conversation down the track if you want to, like, there's the forces external to us that hold us back, and then there's the forces inside of us where we hold ourselves back and we have to, we have to address both of them, right?
Because otherwise. We are never gonna get there. Mm-hmm. So for the things that are within our control as opposed to the patriarchal issues that we're still dealing with, um, the core of this, number one, clarity, number two, inner critic to really understand what are the stories I'm telling myself? [00:26:00] Mm-hmm.
What is my inner narrative that's stopping me taking the action? I wanna take the best, um, definition of research I've ever seen in the data is confidence is the ability to turn our thoughts into action. Confidence is the ability and our thoughts into action. The thing that stops us from taking the action are the stories that we tell ourselves.
So that's why, and that's the inner critic work. I'll, I'll, um, we can link everyone to, to our free guides really detailed. Yeah. On the inner critic, that'd be great. Um, which goes into what it is, the cognitive dissonance that comes up, the 10 most typical stories that women have, and the three part process that I, which I'll tell you now mm-hmm.
Um, that women can work with, um, that really helps us deal with those stories that keep us stuck and the very simple, but. Completely game changing. Three part process is, number one, catch the story. So the next time you are thinking that you wanted [00:27:00] to do something, you wanna go put an article up, or you wanna go and pitch yourself for some pr, or you wanna go and get a new client and you stop yourself, pause.
What's the story I'm telling myself right now about this situation? Mm.
Liz Nable: I'm not
Megan Dalla Camina: smart enough. They won't like me. They're not gonna book me. My work is shit. Like, what's the story? What's the narrative? And we go and write it out. Like write out all the things that are coming up. And then the life changing question is just, is that true?
And we have thousands of women, they put it on a post-it note, stick it on the computer, like, is that true? We need to break the cognitive dissonance of the story that we will often ruminate on at 3:00 AM We need to break that cognitive dissonance and understand what is the truth of this situation and what are alternate facts about the situation so that we can build a better story that gets us to action, which is the third step.
And that process at [00:28:00] first, it can take quite a while to really get in and navigate that. Um, I can now, I now work through that in about 30 seconds. Yeah. Like when something's coming up for me in a block and there's a lot coming up. Anytime you wanna play bigger, guess what? You're in. A critic is coming to the party and I'm really feeling that now as we get ready to launch this next book, major Global Launch and all of my inner critic stories.
Right. But now that I have the tools, I can work through that quite quickly for most of it, so I can get to the action I wanna take, you know, ask for the testimonial. Yes, I'm gonna go do this TV show, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You've gotta be able to work through the internal turmoil.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: That comes up anytime you're gonna go, put yourself out there.
Liz Nable: Do you think it's fundamentally because women care too much about what people think about them? Other people? Is that, is that? Would you say that's a true statement? Like that's at the core of why we do [00:29:00] what we do, why we behave? Or is it far more complex than that?
Megan Dalla Camina: It's far more complex than that. Um, that is certainly one piece of it, a very common piece, um, that yeah, we're worried, you know, um, but it's much more nuanced and complex.
And deeply embedded in how we've been socialized and cultivated as a gender.
Liz Nable: Mm-hmm.
Megan Dalla Camina: You know, and like if you think back to ancient times, um, to primal times. You don't wanna be cast out. You don't wanna stand out 'cause you will get thrown out of the tribe. And what does that mean? You will most likely die.
You're banished. Right? There is a very, um, ingrained embedded in women, particularly in our primitive brains and like in our DNA, don't go against the [00:30:00] grain.
Liz Nable: Women
Megan Dalla Camina: have their place. Yeah, this is all the patriarchal conditioning, right? Yeah. Women have their place, play small, don't speak up, be kind, be empathetic.
Take care of people.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: And a lot of us as women aren't conscious to this, but when we start to see it, we go, oh my God, that makes so much sense. That's why like, I can't. I can't cognitively rationalize why I'm behaving the way that I'm behaving. It's so deeply ingrained.
Liz Nable: Mm, so
Megan Dalla Camina: true. How we've been socialized as women.
So it's not simple, you know? Right. It's not, it's not a simple, uh, thing.
Liz Nable: It's so true because, um, I have a, I've, my first business is, was a fitness business. I still have it in partnership with my husband. And what I started to notice after the first few years of business was. I've never, ever had one male potential member say they can't sign up for a membership [00:31:00] because they don't have time.
They've gotta get home to the kids. They've got kids, not one, not one. And I would say 95% of the reason why. I mean, there's not lots of reasons why people, you know, wouldn't join. Maybe it's not the right place for them or whatever, but the, the, the overwhelming majority reasons why women say they can't sign up to regular exercise is because of their obligations outside.
Megan Dalla Camina: Yes. And 'cause when we put other people first
Liz Nable: Yeah. Blows my mind. It blows my mind. Um, let's talk a little bit about. Putting yourself out there. So assuming we can overcome those hurdles, you've done the inner work and obviously you have done that in your business. You've come from a big corporation where, um, it, it's interesting to say, for you to say earlier in the recording that the women in the big corporations.
Feel the same way as us women on the outside running our own business. I mean, that's a real eyeopener to me, but [00:32:00] let's say you are ready to put yourself out there. How important is it? At that point? You're pitching yourself to the media starting a new business. You wanna get B brand awareness to show up as your authentic self, both.
In running your business, but also in, let's say, sharing your brand story or putting yourself out there, um, you know, perhaps to be a keynote speaker or, or, you know, um, to contribute your expert opinion to media and those sorts of things.
Megan Dalla Camina: Uh, I think it's of critical importance. And again, like I always come back to alignment.
Like we can go put on all the masks and cloaks of armor and be whoever we, you know, they want us to be. But at the end of the day, if that's how we're running our businesses, how does that feel for us?
Liz Nable: Mm.
Megan Dalla Camina: Not great, right? Like, that's not us on our purposeful path. That's not us in alignment with who we are.
Liz Nable: Hmm.
Megan Dalla Camina: So again, like you call it authenticity, call it alignment, call it whatever you want, but. Being clear on who we [00:33:00] are, what we want, what we're creating, why we're doing it, the impact that we're having, um, is hard and essential.
Liz Nable: Mm-hmm.
Megan Dalla Camina: And we have to be vigilant because it's very easy as a business owner to follow the money.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: Rather than get in alignment. And at times of our business, let's be real, we have to do that. Yeah. 'cause we've gotta pay the mortgage and all of the things, make payroll, et cetera. And if we are doing, if we're making choices that maybe are a little out of alignment or we're not feeling like, oh, I've got a, you know, more for little bit here.
But we are aware of that and we're still doing that intentionally. Great.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: It's what I get worried most about is when we don't have the clarity and we're just on that treadmill. Yeah. And we, we, our business doesn't feel great. We might as well go have a job.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: At least we better leave at [00:34:00] six o'clock.
Yeah. And not worry about it all night. Um, so like for the sake of what, for the sake of what I've seen so many entrepreneurs, I've done this myself. Where, you know, we leave to have freedom and agency and control over our lives, and we have less in our own businesses than we ever did working for somebody else.
Yeah, and that comes back to these things that we're talking about, clarity, alignment, action.
Liz Nable: Mm.
Megan Dalla Camina: Um, yeah,
Liz Nable: when you, when, uh, so we teach inside the courses that I run, um, we teach brand story and a lot of the women that I, that first come to me think a brand story is, or their personal story, whatever you wanna call it, is like a whole series of like, you know, chronological events and successes and showing everyone how amazing things are and how great your product is or your service.
You obviously tell your story. I mean, you, you speak on stage all the time. You tell, you know, you talk about it in podcasts, like you shout it from the rooftops, but you tell a very, [00:35:00] very raw and honest version of your brand story. But I think that's why someone like myself. I wanted to have you on the podcast because I see a little bit of myself in you.
How important is, is sharing that, like what are the benefits of, of being a little bit, I mean, you don't have to be tell everyone every single moment of every challenge you've ever had, but how important is that to be transparent about the lows and the highs? Look,
Megan Dalla Camina: I think it, like, it, it's a really good question.
I, I think everybody's gotta find their space and their way through that. Um. For me, it's always been, you know, like my first book was called Getting Real About Having it All. I was still in corporate and I was, I don't know if we can swear on this podcast, but I was, yeah,
Liz Nable: yeah, sure.
Megan Dalla Camina: I was just like, f this shit, like this is, I'm so sick of the cloaks and the masks and the bullshit that comes with being, you know, a woman, let alone a, a female executive.
And I just want to [00:36:00] blow it up.
Liz Nable: Mm-hmm.
Megan Dalla Camina: Um. So for me, I had to navigate my way through that. How much do I share, how raw and real do I get? At the time I wrote that book, everyone was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you're sharing all of this stuff for me. It was very tame. Mm-hmm. It was like, it was literally the foam on the top of the cappuccino.
I wasn't down at the base with the, with the coffee grinds. Right. It was like, you think that's transparent? You right. So like we have to navigate. Um, number one, what is our story? 'cause so many of us as business owners don't know. No. Like, what is the story? What is the red thread that I can pull? Yeah. Um, what is my purpose in this business?
Why am I doing this? Who am I doing it for? So, again, clarity. We have to understand that to get to the origin story and the through line. And then we have to discern. For the sake of what? For the sake of what, how [00:37:00] transparent do I want to be? What feels safe for me? What's the conversation I wanna have with people through my brand story?
And therefore, what do I want to share? What do I feel comfortable sharing? Um, so I think there's like, all of that varies in levels Yeah. For, for people. But to the core of your question is. This piece about showing who we are in our businesses. Um, and I think that, that if we look at business success, connecting with the media, connecting with people, when you're speaking through your content, through this book that I've just written, that is a really, um, really important through lying if you wanna have that connection.
Liz Nable: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I get the most inspiration from those stories because. We've all had challenges in our business. We've all felt like we've failed at different times. Yeah. We've [00:38:00] all, you know, you know, had a period of burnout. Or if we haven't at some point in our life, we probably will. And I just feel like those vulnerable moments is what, particularly women to women, um, is sort of where we connect and where we start to emotionally invest in those brand stories.
And, um, remember that person's business or brand or those sorts of things. Yeah. Let's talk about intent here because a lot of the women who listen to this podcast will probably, um, be thinking about pitching the media, or they might have pitched the media and been successful or. They're already sort of building their reputation as an industry expert across various different industries.
You are obviously considered an expert in leadership, women, all the things we've just talked about. How did you, did you, I mean, obviously you, you intentionally have built up to where you are now. Tell me a little bit about that and how did you do it?
Megan Dalla Camina: Um, yeah, so I did it sporadically. Which is, which is a, which is a, a, a tale of [00:39:00] avoidance.
Um. Which I think many women will relate to. So, I mean, I came out of corporate, uh, with some profile. But not, you know, I wasn't CEO of Telstra, you know, I was director of strategy for IBM, but I was doing stuff in the women's space. Um, and I'd been, I'd written my first book. It had just come out all, all the rest of it.
So, you know, those first couple of years I was very intentional. You know, I was doing, I like media and, uh, building a brand was really important for me.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: Um, you know, I got a lot of press here around the first book. I went to the US and got C-N-B-C-C-N-N, like it was crazy. Did all of this stuff right at the bat.
Um, and that, you know, I was, I'm a writer, so I was writing, you know, articles and blogging and, and doing all of those things. And then, so it was like the first third of my business life, and then I went into two periods [00:40:00] of startup phase. Actually building startups, which were sort of subsections of my business and my head was just down and I was just working.
Yeah. And I'm just coming out of that phase, you know, in the last sort of six months, six to nine months. 'cause I've just built this thriving startup. We're now scale up. Um, and now I'm like, oh, okay, Megan, get your head up. Focus outwards because I wasn't interested in any of that. I was like building this movement that is women rising.
Um, so now being very intentional, you know, yeah, I've got a publicist doing a lot of thought leadership, doing a lot of writing articles, interviews, podcasts. Uh, it is one of the top priorities now in my business is around profile, raising, raising the movement, getting ready, seeding the market for the book.
Which is also called Women Rising. Yeah. Which is coming at the end of August. Um, so you can see these waves. Yeah. It's not how I recommend that business owners do it. I would [00:41:00] absolutely recommend,
Liz Nable: excuse me,
Megan Dalla Camina: consistency, like a consistent pro. And sometimes you might accelerate, sometimes you might come back.
Better consistent approach. I think for me, I'd built up enough of a brand as a thought leader and as an expert that when I got my head down. To go build three years of just, okay, let's get this startup going. I could come out of it with some ease.
Liz Nable: Yeah. '
Megan Dalla Camina: cause there's now a lot of press and, and things happening.
Yeah. Because of that legacy that I'd created.
Liz Nable: Yeah. And the book does certainly help or writing books. Obviously there's flurries of, of publishing. Yes. Are we gonna talk about the book? It's gonna be my last question to you. Um. How important is that media and PR exposure for someone? I guess you are a personal brand.
I know it's, it's women rising, but it, you are very much the face of it, which is not always the case in business, but for us it is. Um, so for anyone with a personal brand or thinking about building that profile as a personal brand, how important is that media and PR to them? I mean, for a lot of people they're like, oh, [00:42:00] it's too hard.
I mean. Coming from a journalist perspective, that's what I teach. So I'm obviously a massive advocate for it. But what, what's your opinion on that?
Megan Dalla Camina: Um, like I would have, I, I mean we have, we consider in our business two brands. So there's the Women Rising brand and then there's the Megan Dela Camina Yeah.
Brand. We talk about me in the third person. It's hilarious. Um, what are we doing for the MDC brand? Um, so for a personal brand, I think it's really important for business owners to, like, I always really like to ask the question for the sake of what.
Liz Nable: Yeah. For
Megan Dalla Camina: the sake of what do you need to build your brand for the sake of, what do you need PR and media, like for me in that three year phase where I was building the startup wasn't important.
Liz Nable: No.
Megan Dalla Camina: Right. It just, we weren't ready for it. We had to get the ones on the board and now Okay. Women rising brand boom.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: Um, through everything that we built for a personal brand, you know, I like to ask for the sake of what, and I like to ask the question, what do you wanna be known for?
Liz Nable: Mm-hmm. [00:43:00]
Megan Dalla Camina: And then like insert the question, how does PR and media help me fulfill my purpose and serve my audience?
For some businesses that might be, well, it actually doesn't. We've got a really strong distribution model and we've got this and partner dah. For others, it's gonna be like me, for me to fulfill my purpose and serve millions of women. People need to know who I am. Mm. How do people know who you are? Pr, media, thought leadership, podcasts.
Yeah. All of the things. Right. And I find with women, certainly true for me, that when we can make it about the people, for me, how do I serve the women? It gets me out of the way. And so all of my inner critic stuff settles down still there, but I know what to do with it settles down, um, because it's, how can I serve the [00:44:00] women?
And that's for the sake of what. For the sake of what am I gonna go and go into the Telstra Awards, which I really didn't want to do and my team's like it's gonna help us serve the women. Okay, done. I'm in. Right? We won. Great. That's helped.
Liz Nable: Not about you.
Megan Dalla Camina: Not about me. Yeah. It's not about me. So how do you get yourself out of the process?
Yeah.
Liz Nable: Get out of your way. Yep.
Megan Dalla Camina: For any of it, you know, we are planning these major book events. I don't wanna do. You know, but I wanna connect with the women.
Liz Nable: Yeah. For me,
Megan Dalla Camina: it's about the women and not about me being on stage.
Liz Nable: Yeah.
Megan Dalla Camina: And if I focus on me being on stage, I'm not gonna do that. I'm an introvert. I just wanna sit and do the work and you know, and serve people.
Yeah. But when I think, okay, there's gonna be, you know, 500 or a thousand women in that room that I'm gonna connect with and I'm gonna help them with something, I'm there. I'm showing up. Yeah. Even if I'm uncomfortable.
Liz Nable: Yeah. Yeah. Same
Megan Dalla Camina: with media and pr. A
Liz Nable: hundred percent. And that [00:45:00] absolutely, if you give yourself permission to get out of your own way by making it about something other than you, it's almost, you know, a direct line to overcoming a bit of that imposter syndrome and quietening down that inner critic.
Megan Dalla Camina: Yes.
Liz Nable: Because it's,
Megan Dalla Camina: it's not about, and that's why the clarity and that alignment is so important and understanding why am I doing this? Why did I just spend a year on this piece of work? Why am I doing PhD research? Why am I showing up with the women in our community? It's not about me. Yeah. I'm just the vessel on the channel.
Yeah. To help them have their own journey. And if I don't show up, guess what? All of those women who send me messages and they're saying, this has been life changing and you said this and this happened, dah, dah, dah. What happens for them? Right. If I don't show up. So yeah, take yourself outta the way think.
Liz Nable: Yeah, I think culturally, as Australians as well, we are much more comfortable with that [00:46:00] because, I mean, you've worked, you know, you've done business in the US and other places where it's kind of much more acceptable, excuse me, to put yourself out there and showboat for want of a better word. But Australians as a culture, we don't really like that, do we?
So, um, we
Megan Dalla Camina: really don't. We really don't, and I, I, I see this all the time. You know, you compare the American culture to the Australian culture and, and how, how we show particularly the Australian culture and, you know, the misogyny that exists in our culture. And it, it can be, it just that another layer of challenge.
Liz Nable: Oh, absolutely. That tall poppy syndrome is, is definitely a challenge here. Um, tell me a bit about the book before we go. So. Was it? Was it, so it's out in August of this year, correct. August 28. August 28. Okay. I'm gonna pop that in the share notes.
Megan Dalla Camina: It is called Women Rising, the Forces that Hold us back, the tools to help us rise.
And I go through [00:47:00] three, the journey goes through three core, um, pieces. The first is, what are the forces that hold women back? So we're diving into things that we don't talk about. Patriarchy power, the paradoxes of power, and really articulating like, what does the motherhood paradox look like? What does a leadership paradox look like?
You know, we tell women we want 'em to lead, but not like that. Don't do it like that. Do it like this. Lead like a man and that's acceptable. Yeah. Um, the challenges that exist for women when they become mothers, and the paradox of, well, we want you to work. Like you don't have children, but we want you to parent like you don't have a job.
Like all of this entanglement. Um, so that's the, around the forces. 'cause we need to understand what they are, like what is the world that we're living and working in. The second part is, uh, the stories that keep us stuck. So this is all of the inner critic work and looking at the 13 archetypes of the inner critic.
Like who are you, are you the perfectionist, the good goal. [00:48:00] The overachiever, which is what I am, like who are you? How do you identify that and work through that? And then what are the tools,
Liz Nable: the
Megan Dalla Camina: really practical tools and pathways to, as we said, step into your power.
Liz Nable: Yeah. Awesome. Where can people get the book?
Megan Dalla Camina: So it's available for pre-order now? Yep. I'm not sure when the podcast comes up. Um, every, everywhere. And then it will be everywhere. I mean, it'll be all bookstores, all online retailers, Amazon, Booktopia, Barnes and Noble. Oh, that's so exciting. A lot in the US around it as well. Yeah. So yeah, it's very exciting.
It's my life's work.
Liz Nable: Oh, congratulations. What an achieve. I mean, I know you've done, you've written many books, but congratulations.
Megan Dalla Camina: Thank you. Yeah. This was the, um, for, for, for authors. Authors will understand this, or people who really wanna write a book. Um, I've written three other books. This was the book and I waited four years since my last book to write this book [00:49:00] because I knew what it was gonna be, but it needed to be the right time and I needed to have done all of this work I've done with my company and the women to get to the place where I'm like, okay, now's the time.
Liz Nable: Mm-hmm.
Megan Dalla Camina: And now's the time in the zeitgeist for the conversation that it's going to create.
Liz Nable: Absolutely. Uh,
Megan Dalla Camina: we weren't ready before. We're ready now. The market's like people are ready. So yes. Very exciting.
Liz Nable: Megan, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. I, I can't wait to, um, chat again perhaps in six months or so when the book is out and we can go down that rabbit hole of so many of those other conversations that we, we were love that rushed on today.
Megan Dalla Camina: We'd love that. Thanks for having me. Great question. Great discussion. Loved it.
Liz Nable: This episode of Media Magnet was brought to you by my signature group coaching program, the Media Masters Academy. The Media Masters Academy is a live online six week course taught by me and designed to teach you how to become your own publicist and give you exclusive access to pitch the country's top journalists and [00:50:00] editors doors open just three times a year.
Check it out at liznable.com, along with a ton of free resources to help you get started taking your business from best kept secret to household name. Right now, if you love this episode of Media Magnet, please share it with your business buddies or on social media and tag me at at Liz Nable. And if there's a specific guest you wanna hear from on the show or a topic or question you want to know more about, please tell me so I can make sure the show stays dedicated, especially for you.
