1 JOHN ARNOTT
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[00:00:00] In the years since COVID, in the last five or six years, small businesses' costs have increased by well over 25%. Mm. And there are certain areas that are just significant in terms of those kind of year-on-year increases, and they are all real costs that small businesses have to bear
Welcome to a special six-part miniseries, What I Wish I Knew About Small Business Before I Started. It's brought to you by my Media Magnet Podcast, and I'm your host, Liz Nable. In this series, we're stepping back from just media and PR to talk about the real lessons of running a small business in Australia right now, the money, the systems, the learnings, the visibility, and the mindset shifts we usually learn the hard way.
These episodes are proudly sponsored by AMP Bank Go, backing Australia's small businesses with tools and [00:01:00] support that actually make day-to-day business life easier. Let's dive into today's episode.
All right, John. Well, welcome to the podcast Thank you, Liz This is something a little bit different to what I would normally do. Normally, we have producers, TV presenters, reporters, journos, small business owners, but obviously I've been working with you guys for a while now Yeah And I feel like it's a really organic kind of partnership to be working with a business, a big business, mind you, but a business that's focusing on the needs of small business owners.
Yep. Yep. What sort of... What would you say if we were at a barbecue, I'd never met you before, I'm a small business owner, and I ask you, "What do you do?" Good question, and that does happen actually. In fact, sometimes my parents ask the same question. So what do I do? Essentially I run ANB VanGo. ANB VanGo is a new bank, a digital bank, that is there to make banking better and give small businesses and everyday Australians a [00:02:00] fairer go.
We firmly believe, I firmly believe that banking is really important for small businesses. They might not have a lot of time, but at the end of the day, and we'll talk a little bit in the future around kind of insights we're seeing around cost of living and the economics behind small businesses, but it's really important that we're doing all we can to set small businesses up for success in ultimately what's a really challenging environment.
It is. And we've obviously talked about that at length too. Yeah, yeah. As a small business owner, it is nice to see that someone has identified that small business owners need help- Yep ... in this area. Yep. Do you have a, like a familial connection to small business? Like, what makes you passionate about doing something in the small business space?
Yeah, there's a couple of things. I reflect, I can't remember how old I was, it shows my age and how old it is, but I think I was about 15 and my first job was actually at a coffee shop in the north of England working for a small business, and my job was essentially grating cheese and washing dishes. Very glamorous.
But there were only four people working in the business. There were the two owners and two other people, and I just remember seeing firsthand [00:03:00] every Saturday from my job from 8:00 till 6:00 or whatever it was, seeing the dynamics of the small business, seeing how the owners needed to juggle not only kind of making food, kind of managing the hospitality, managing running the business and kind of employing staff.
They had the day-to-day thrash. If it was raining outside, then there were no people on the streets and no one was coming in, and they had all this food all wastage that they had to kind of get rid of. Sometimes I ate the food that w- we couldn't get sold. So I saw working in a small business was really insightful to me, and it really connected with about how much hard work, but frankly bloody grit and sweat and passion went into these businesses.
This is what they believed. This was their livelihood, and it wasn't just the hours I was working from 8:00 till 6:00 on a Saturday. You could see how it was just all-encompassing, but they really cared. And the other thing is, which is important to me, that I always took away from that job, was just seeing the customers.
Seeing the customers who would come back sometimes even when it was raining. [00:04:00] They came back, they'd order the same food, but what the small businesses meant to them. And I think that's also important for me, 'cause I engage with small bu- businesses every day. Mm. You know? Sometimes I treat myself to a coffee in the morning.
You know, it's whether it's kind of nipping to the convenience store on the corner 'cause we, you know, got the emergency shop, we haven't got anything for the kids to eat for dinner or whatever it is, and just seeing the role that small businesses play in the community, and that to me it kind of, it's really important and I'm a big believer- Mm
in community and I'm a big believer in, you know, I think kind of people coming together with common goals, and I firmly believe small businesses are crucial to that. So just before we go any further, I think it's important for me to say, as a former journo, I'm not restricted to what I can ask you. I've written the questions myself and say on the record that I'm allowed to ask you whatever I want.
Yeah. 'Cause I just wanna make sure that the small business owners listening to the podcast know that there's no kind of hidden agenda here in terms of what I'm allowed to ask you. So I might ask you a few difficult questions. I hope you don't mind. Okay. Thanks for that. So I guess in the past, and as a small business owner myself, I [00:05:00] genuinely remember when I first opened my bricks and mortar business back in 2012, it was a fitness business, thinking to myself, I'd borrowed money from my bank, against used my home as leverage to, to borrow money to start the business.
It wasn't a massive amount in the scheme of what, you know, some people borrow to invest in their first business, but enough to kind of make you a little bit nervous to pull the trigger. Mm. And then that was it And I just remember thinking, "Surely there's more help coming." Like, surely these guys have lent me this money, they're gonna, they're gonna maybe help me with some advice, they're gonna point me in the right direction.
Perhaps there's some products or services that they offer that can help me- Yeah ... kinda get started. But that never came. Yeah. And it still doesn't really exist, as far as I know. What is it about what AMP Bank Go is trying to do to solve those problems? And why now? Like, it's a young bank, I think two years old.
Is that right? Yeah, but less than that, actually. Just over a year old now. Right. But no, I think that's a really fair question, and [00:06:00] that's one of the reasons why here, I think at the end of the day, what you just described rings true to me. Small businesses, often they start up, but they don't have... They, they're going into something they've never done before.
How do they have the support? How do they get the guidance on how to do running a small business better? And, uh, at the moment, rightly or wrongly, in the category today, the- particularly in the category of banking, you're seeing very good levels of, I'm gonna call it service, for bigger companies. I think even in the, kind of the retail segment, Liz, you're seeing, you know, particularly for high net wealth individuals, they're getting really almost over-serviced.
But the small business sector, of which, which is growing and incredibly important, is just under-serviced. And it's not just around the products and the services and the pricing. It's around the guidance, around kind of helping small businesses, the information they need to kind of best survive and thrive.
Mm. And I think that's why we're here. So what are we doing differently? Well, the first thing is we're not focused... If you're a big business, we are not the bank for you. We're not trying to service multiple segments. We are a brand that fundamentally is [00:07:00] dedicated to just small businesses. So we are making sure that we're not...
Our focus is not distracted. We're not trying to cover everything, and we're really leaning in, and we're really making sure we do understand small businesses and what their pains are. I think, you know, if I can be honest here, I think sometimes the category does a good job of pushing products- Mm ... onto small businesses because it's good for the bank.
What we want to do is we want to understand, well, what are the challenges that small businesses have, and how can we solve that? Partly through product, partly through great service, partly through partnerships. So very much a listening bank that's understanding, and then doing all we can to solve those needs.
But equally, being clear where we can't play. Mm. And there's many things we're not set up to do, and we're just gonna say no. Mm. And that is the bigger business side of things. We believe that the smaller businesses is where the opportunity is for Australia, I would say, and we equally think they're underserved, and we can play a role.
Mm. And it's interesting, 'cause I've always seen that as the opportunity. Like, there's, the majority of small business owners are exactly that. They're [00:08:00] small, and they, and we, I think we genuinely feel a little bit underserved, not important- Mm ... because we lo- you know, millions, is it 2.7 or 2.9- 2.7. Enough ain't it?
Million Eight maybe. Yeah, million. Yeah, yeah ... small business owners. So collectively we are, like, we've got strength in numbers, but we each individually are making, let's say, I think it's less than 10 million is the category for small business owners right now in Australia. So we definitely feel that we're not that important, and then of course, once you're doing well, then you've got peop- you know, banks throwing their- Yeah
their service and their, you know, throwing everything at you to kinda help you once you're doing well. W- what are... I know as a small business owner, when I first started, I did silly things, like we spent all our budget on fitting out our business. We didn't really leave much money left for marketing or cashflow and those sorts of things.
What are some of the things that you see the most in servicing small business owners where small business owners go wrong? 'Cause they, you know, hindsight's 20/20, right? But what can you see or what do you identify as the biggest sort of mistakes small business [00:09:00] owners make in a financial sense? Well, I think part of the challenge is pro- going back to what I was talking about earlier, the coffee shop where I used to work in, i- when I was younger, when I was growing up.
Small business owners are very, they're very passionate about their craft. They're very passionate about what they do, and they're very busy in doing that. Mm-hmm. It's around creating the time and the mental availability to actually think about money. Money can be a bit of a taboo topic, and it certainly can pull against, as I said, the kind of the core focus of the business.
So I think what I see as an opportunity is how can small business owners almost ring-fence an amount of time just to think about money and talk about money? 'Cause at the moment there is no more time in the day. Mm-hmm. And there are many things which frankly are probably more interesting - Yeah ... for you to focus on.
So I think the discipline of almost having a, you know... Someone told me the other day when they were arranging their wedding, they were like, "I'm gonna talk about my wedding planning on a Tuesday evening for an hour between 6:00 and 7:00. Don't really wanna do it. Wedding planning's not that interesting, but I'm gonna take some time."[00:10:00]
What is the 6:00 till 7:00 time slot on a Tuesday, or whatever is the equivalent, for a small business to think about money and understanding, "Well, where is my money going? What's going on in terms of my financial health? Am I getting the right interest rate? Am I avoiding fees?" And just taking a time out to, to talk about something which isn't of high interest.
Maybe there is also a low level of financial literacy, and making sure you're taking the time to think about it and think about it properly. Now I think banks have an obligation to ma- to make that hour easier. How do we make sure we provide customers the information about their money, how it's going, what they're spending?
How do we give them insights which are gonna be able to help that conversation? How do we talk about things in plain English as opposed to kind of some of the kind of the BS bingo that you're seeing out there where everything's really complicated and kind of banker language? And then how do small businesses then reach out to banks and ask them for help?
But creating the time to talk about the taboo topic in an environment where there's no time in the day is a discipline which is well said, but I don't think well [00:11:00] tried. Yeah, and look, you're completely right. Most small business owners, in my experience, including myself, are passionate about the service or the product- Yeah
that they offer. They see a gap in the market, they're solving a problem. That's where their focus lies. And the sales side, right? And the sales side. Yeah. And then the money, unless I guess it's, uh, naturally kind of something that you are good at or you're passionate about, which more often than not is not the case.
Yeah. I- it's too late when you realize that you haven't left enough cashflow for, you know, lead time- Totally agree ... to pay your bills. A- and Liz, the other thing I see as well is often people are running their small business through their personal account. Mm. And so therefore, for you to understand where your money's going and what's coming in, you've then gotta start kind of segregating out, "Well, actually, that's my personal spend on, you know, something that I've, I don't know, bought some clothes or gone to do the groceries," or whatever it may well be, and how do I start to strip that out from the business spend?
So you've actually kind of got clearer insight on what's going on, and I think I strongly encourage people to take the [00:12:00] time to compartmentalize their finances and to make sure that they really understand what their financial situation is today. It's quite scary the amount of people out there who think they're not paying fees on their business, and they are.
Mm. And if you look after the cents, the dollars do look after themselves. Mm-hmm. And I think it's, it's getting on that flywheel. It's building the muscle. It's going to the gym to build the financial acumen. Mm. And ultimately, kind of getting the time allocated to be able to kind of talk to yourself or other small businesses around what you can do.
Yeah, I think, I mean, I would say I'm in that category. The money stuff doesn't come naturally to me. Yeah. Probably not that interesting sometimes as well, right? Yeah. So you get your head around it and you've got the basics. It's something that, you know, w- when your business is doing well as well, you're more inclined to wanna know.
You know, when the profit line looks good- Of course ... of course you wanna know about it. Yeah. And when it doesn't look good, you bury your head in the sand a lot of the time- Yeah ... and worry about that later. Yeah. I know for me, when I first started business, I just looked at sales every day. That would excite me, I've made all these sales.
Of course. But now I know that doesn't actually [00:13:00] really matter in the scheme of things, because it was, I should've been looking at the profit we were making and the outgoings as opposed to the incomings, and all those sorts of things. Yeah. There's some other areas, like you mentioned, people not setting their business up properly from the outset.
Yeah. I'm assuming someone who's running their business through their personal account perhaps started it as a side hustle or didn't realize it would do so well and thought maybe they'd just dabble for a bit and it wouldn't evolve into much. Yeah. Is, a- and profit versus revenue. There are other kind of things that you see in small business owners who you're servicing through ANP Banco that are big kind of common mistakes that you see the most.
I think understanding your payment schedules, because I think, you know, obviously a lot of small businesses have suppliers they need to pay, but the invoicing process and the time can often be 30 days. I think people often look at money in the now. Mm-hmm. And it's around understanding the kind of delay in terms of either paying or getting paid.
It's coming, the check's in the mail, or the bill's in the mail. Mm-hmm. Because often we just look at kind of, what's my financial health today? We're not thinking [00:14:00] about the, you know, what's coming in 30 days in terms of going in and out. And so therefore, people are probably not getting a clear view of their financial health 'cause they're just taking daily snapshots.
So that kind of classic challenge around how do I get paid quickly and pay quickly so you've got a real view of your financial health. The surprises that shouldn't be surprises coming through from that payment cycle. Mm-hmm. So I think that's certainly something that I would encourage people just to understand their payment flows.
Mm-hmm. And again, a lot of that's available. You can manage them better and you can see it within banking apps, but people th- don't necessarily know how to. Mm-hmm. They don't have a relationship manager they can call. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And they don't have the time to be able to kind of self-explore. Yeah. What, how is- AMP Bank, obviously you're a digital bank.
Mm. It- From what I know, you've simplified things so that it's not complicated for business owners to understand what's in front of them. What are some of the ways that you guys have done that to make it easier? I guess one of your, I think one of your [00:15:00] taglines is making business, small business easier or less stressful.
Yeah. And how, how are you doing that in the, the products and services that you offer? Yeah. Well, I mean, certainly that's our mission. And to be honest with you, some things we do are wrong, and we need to learn from it and we get better, but there's a few things that we're really seeing starting to cut through.
I think the first thing is going back to this, this concept of compartmentalizing your finances. So we've got a f- a facility within our app, Liz, which we call Spaces, and that allows you to be able to kind of have a clear review about how you manage various elements of your business. So for example, for you in, in your business, you could have a space for AMP or a space for other clients, and you can then see bundled together all the financial ingoings and outgoings for each of your clients, for each of your suppliers.
So I think kind of tools like that allows you to be able to kind of zoom in at focused areas as opposed to see everything aggregated in one big snapshot. This kind of almost can be a little bit confronting. Mm. So I think that's point one. I think the other one for me is fees. I [00:16:00] was quite surprised when we were talking to business owners around how many of them think they are not paying fees, but in reality they're actually paying quite a lot.
And the, and fees are, you know, they add up, right? And not only emotionally people don't like the idea of paying fees, but fiscally, fees actually kind of really pull against the bottom line, and certainly in the environment where costs are significantly rising. So how do we make sure that people really have the peace of mind, and frankly the healthy bank balance, from having a genuine fee-free proposition?
Mm. So there are a couple of things. It is an app only. We want to make it really easy. But it, but also we've made sure that, you know, recognizing some people aren't gonna find things in the app, and I think I'm really proud of the, the feedback we get on our call center. Mm. You know, our call center are there to help.
They are there to take the time to listen, to take the time to kind of support customers. They're not on a, on the clock in terms of you've got to finish this call up within a minute and move on. Mm. And what you see coming through from customers about, "It was really great to talk to X," and people are being named individually, "They've [00:17:00] taken the time to understand me and really help."
And I think that feeling of being a true partner is something that we need, and it's something that small businesses are looking for, and I think it's a point of difference that we're offering in the market. Mm. It's interesting because you talk about things like fees- And to me as a small business owner, it's often, it's, it feels like other big banks have almost taken advantage of the fact that small business owners are too busy to- Yeah
analyze their account keeping fees or whatever fees they're being charged. And that's kind of a good thing because, you know, that never really gets noticed or brought to their attention. It's not something that small business owners have the time to focus on. Yeah. Which brings me to the question of, like, trust because, and we've spoken about this before- Yeah
off the record. W- where, h- how do you approach that as a new kind of bank on the scene servicing small business owners? How do you build that trust? 'Cause if I didn't know you, I would say, "Well, why would I trust you, you know, as opposed to any other bank?" 'Cause I've been told all these [00:18:00] things before, and I have worked with banks who've said things- Yeah
about helping small business owners, and it's ended up just being a box-ticking exercise. So how do you rebuild that trust and sort of gain the loyalty of small business owners when we've kind of been burned in the past? Yeah. I think that's very fair. At the end of the day, we're a bank, you know? With AMP Bank Go, we've still got bank in our name, and that- that's the clue.
And I think generally when the category of banking, if I could use that word, probably has had maybe a lower level of trust, we're in that category. So how do we do things differently? I think there's a couple of things. First of all, I think we've just gotta walk the talk, okay? Mm-hmm. Words are cheap, actions are not.
So how do we make sure we get out there and we physically stop talking and start walking, and really put our, you know, our value proposition, our proof points, and we're very clear about making sure we don't fall into the traps that you've just suggested. And I think you're right in some of those kind of, some of those stories you're telling.
I think the second one for me is it just takes time. Trust isn't something you just win overnight. Mm-hmm. And I think it's around how do we [00:19:00] continue to make sure our narrative is consistent? How do we stay true to our knitting, and actually how do we continue to talk to customers? And then the third thing for me is how you show up.
I think, you know, I talked earlier around pushing products versus listening to customers. I think, you know, we've gotta show up with empathy. We've gotta show up that we understand it's bloody hard work out there as a small business right now. Mm-hmm. You know? It's, time is challenged, money is challenged.
Acknowledging that the small businesses we are here to serve are going through different times and we're here to help them, that kind of vulnerability and that empathy is super important. And unfortunately there's, it doesn't happen overnight. And equally, you can't just do one of those. You've gotta deliver on your proof points.
You've gotta be consistent. You've gotta take the time, and ultimately you've gotta be vulnerable and kind of have that kind of partnership mindset. I firmly believe if you do all of those, in time customers will start to believe. And when customers, what we are seeing as well is when we do get customers who have actually said, "Actually, do you know what?
AMP Bank Go is different. [00:20:00] I'm going to give them a go." No pun intended. What we do see is they then tell other people about it. Mm-hmm. Because people don't... And they're not in the era where they just believe advertising anymore. No. You know, they're quite cynical about it. So they need to s- they need to have an earned experience, and I think if they have that experience, they test, they try things out, and they see, wow, actually this is different, it's amazing how the advocacy wheel then starts turning because people start talking.
Businesses have communities. They work together. Mm-hmm. And I think that's the effective way. Mm-hmm. Be part of the community, but not, but you know- Part of the comm- but not own the community. Mm-hmm. And I think that's what the balance we're trying to strike. Mm-hmm. I have to say, and again, you know, I've... I'm a journalist.
I'm, I'm- ... probably honest to a fault. It's been really refreshing to actually work with a bank who is listening to the challenges of small business owners, and not telling us what we think they think we wanna hear, but genuinely wants to hear about where the biggest pain points are- Yeah ... for us. [00:21:00] I haven't really experienced that, and I've worked with quite a few banks over the last sort of 15 years.
One of the ways you guys seem to be doing things differently is by, so one of your recent sort of efforts, which is this small business cost pressure index- Yeah ... is something that I have never seen a bank do before. So essentially, trying to find out, do your own research, invest your own, I guess, marketing dollars or research dollars- Yeah
into finding out, you know, what is really the pain points of small business owners. So tell me a bit about this small business cost pressure index and what the sort of results that you've found so far. Yeah. So I think it's exactly as you say. It's really important we're understanding the businesses, the business owners, and the people who work for businesses that we are here to serve.
And I think sometimes when you look at things every day, you lose sight of the kind of the trend lines. And what this survey essentially... And it's something that's not gonna be a one-off survey. It's something we're gonna do on an ongoing basis so that we can truly understand people and understand kind of what we can do to help.
I do [00:22:00] wanna add that sometimes we can't help. Yeah. And I think that's an important point, Liz, and I'll come onto the survey in a second. But just because consumers or businesses have challenges, we need to be very clear about what we can do and what we can't do. Yeah. And not try and pretend to be the savior or the answer to everything.
At the end of the day, we're still a bank. We still have certain obligations, certain regulatory commitments, and s- yeah, we need to be able to deliver appropriate returns as well. Mm-hmm. So saying yes to everything is not the answer. Being clear and saying, "We understand your problem. This is what we can help, but this is what we can't help you with," and that kind of transparency, I think that's super important because at the end of the day, the insights I've got from working here and in my prior life working with small businesses, in small businesses, my wife started small businesses, my friend has started small businesses, it's the lack of transparency, and I think that's what we really want to solve.
Mm-hmm. I didn't answer your question. Sorry. Back to your index. It's okay. Back to your index. Look, I think the key thing for me, which is really kind of quite shocking when you really step back, in the years since COVID, in the last five or six years, small businesses' costs [00:23:00] have increased by well over 25%.
Mm-hmm. And there are certain areas that are just significant in terms of those kind of year-on-year increases, and they are all real costs that small businesses have to bear. Yeah. And I think about it and I go, "Wow, as a small business consumer," and as, as I said, I consume from small businesses every day, the convenience and the value they offer.
Have my costs really gone up by that much? And I think about that and go, how do small businesses who are already kind of often running on the line, how are they consuming these costs- Mm ... but it, but it's staying of, of appeal and of value to the end consumer? Through not kind of increasing prices above and beyond.
Mm-hmm. And that to me is the big insight. Costs are real, and they're going up, and how small businesses can stay afloat and still offer, kind of, value to their customers whilst incurring or ingesting these costs, it's really quite scary. Yeah, it's crazy. It's felt, it felt like that going through COVID and watching [00:24:00] the profit, like in our business, we were in the fitness industry obviously, which was a highly impacted industry.
But once we recovered and got back to that regular revenue- Yeah ... that was fine, but we couldn't work out for months and months. The revenue was the same or, you know, moderately increased year on year, but the profit was diving. Yeah. And we were like, "What is going on?" Yeah. But when you look at some of the results of this Cost Pressure Index, insurance is up 52%.
52%. Fuel is up 38%, and I heard on the news this morning that's potentially going up again- Yeah ... depending on what happens- Yeah ... with this war- Right ... in Iran. Borrowing costs are up 36%. Electricity's up 26%. Rent is up 23%. Wages more than 20%. Like, how is that even possible to keep a small business afloat? Like, it just blows my mind that- 100%.
And, and I think, look, there's a couple of things there. Most of these are real costs you can't avoid. Yeah. I think, I think it's prudent and important businesses have an appropriate level of insurance. I [00:25:00] think for businesses that rely on real estate or physical spaces, you are gonna have to pay rent or own your building- Mm-hmm
and they are real costs. I can't think of many businesses that can survive without electricity. Mm. So- Yeah ... so I think, you know, they're real costs, and they need to be borne. What I would say is I think when small businesses, and going back to that kind of 6:00 till 7:00 PM on a Tuesday hour- Mm ... or whenever may well be, but really making sure that business owners are taking the time to do th- all they can to make sure they are getting the best value on offer.
So when it look- when it's coming to rents, are, are they getting the best rent they can? Certainly where I live in, in, in the west of Sydney, I'm seeing a lot of kind of buildings in the streets near me that small businesses used to be in are empty. Mm. Because small businesses are voting with their feet, and they're moving across the street to cheaper rents.
Yeah. Bit of a hassle, but my, I encourage, these costs are real, but there are still, there's still great value to be had for people that, A, know what they're paying today, and B, are prepared to look around- Mm ... and C, are then prepared to switch accordingly. And [00:26:00] that can be difficult, but there is value, and I think we're looking at this as these are the costs that businesses are paying, but there's still some great value out there if you look around and take the time to kind of see what's on offer.
Mm. Yeah, I mean, look, a lot of these costs are non-negotiable, right? You know- Yeah ... insurance, electricity, like you said, rent and all- Yeah ... those sorts of things. So you can't move the dial a lot of the time with those costs. Unfortunately for small business owners, unlike insurance companies, you can't just keep increasing your prices every year.
Correct. Right? It's just, it's not possible, and, you know, small business owners have a whole other raft of issues with dealing with customers- Yeah ... on the ground- Who are annoyed when the increase in the price of coffee or, you know, avocado toast or whatever it is that you're buying at the local cafe Yeah, yeah.
But that's why I think value comes back into it. And then we talked earlier, yeah, let's just- Just take insurance. If the cost for insurance are going up over 50% year on year and they're real costs and they are ultimately you can't find real value and you are at the right level of policy and coverage for your insurance policy, then you've got [00:27:00] to find that 50%.
And I think that's where it comes back into looking and understanding the cost base of your business. It goes back to what we talked earlier about, the six- till seven-hour. Where are your costs? What can you strip out? Are you as efficient as you can be? Are you paying bank fees that you shouldn't want to pay?
Mm. Are you getting the best rates on your savings to be able to kind of offset or counterbalance these cost increases? So I think it comes on both sides of the balance sheet, essentially, or the P&L. It is, it's around making sure what you're spending is ultimately what you really need to spend and you're not being overcharged.
Mm. Making sure, ultimately, what you're paying out- Mm ... is of the best value and you've got a clear review on your finance and you're feeling more in control, and you're getting the value that your small business need, deserves, and frankly, needs d- for, for its own viability. Yeah, and I think that was the whole premise around this special series of the podcast is we can't solve everyone's problems.
No. Small business has always been hard. I don't think any small business owner starts a small business thinking it's a get-rich-quick scheme. No. I don't think it's ever been more challenging than it is right now, [00:28:00] but helping small business owners face the music, I guess, because there's not a huge amount we can do about things like interest rates and inflation, but we can certainly take our head out of the sand and start to get smarter with the way we spend our money or save our money or who we bank with.
Correct. And I'd go back to, I think if we, if small businesses start to kind of look after the cents, then the dollars will start to look after themself. It is a cumulative effect. I think it will add up, but it starts with, you know, as I said earlier, people start small businesses because they're really passionate about something.
It's their craft. Mm. It's what they really believe in. Mm. It's what they're good at. Mm. They often don't go into this thinking about the kind of the money in the business and the fiscal or the monetary side of things. Take a little bit of time to understand it and make sure you're really comfortable as business owners, that you know what you're spending and what you're earning, and that you're doing the best you can to make that work for you.
Mm. Then hopefully, that will all flow through into, you know, business longevity. Mm. Which, business longevity is good for Australia. Absolutely. And I firmly believe Australians want to help small [00:29:00] businesses. Mm. And I think part of the reason for this survey is important. I personally, and we as ANB Bank go, we have to tell the story to s- support small businesses.
It's tough. How can we get that message to everyday Australians so they continue to shop in the small businesses that are ultimately in their community? Do you think Australian consumers understand the va- 'cause obviously they're under pressure too. They are. Right? Do you think they understand the value that small business brings to their community or their main street or their, the culture here in Australia?
I think they do, but I think not all the time. Mm. I think sometimes when you're just- 'Cause you talked earlier, as you mentioned, the cost of living crisis- Mm ... is for everyday Australians as well. So I think people are often looking at it at a transactional level. What is the cost of my basket in the shop or whatever- Mm
it may well be, or the cost of my coffee. And I think people think about, "I could save 20 cents by here, there, and everywhere." But I think if you peel it back and you ask Australians and go, "What's important to you?" They will say small [00:30:00] businesses. But there's a disconnect there in terms of the how do I save 20 cents and go to away from the small business to a bigger business for cheaper coffee.
Mm-hmm. But e- equally, I want to shop local. I want to shop with my local community. So I think that's part of the reason for this survey, is to kind of remind Australians that small businesses are important. They are doing it tough. To get ... So consumers give them a bit of a break. Mm. Stop holding them to account to exactly the same price points of bigger businesses who can ultimately afford it through scale, through regulation.
And, you know, often sometimes you just paying a little bit more- Mm ... is actually gonna help the small business, it's gonna help the community, and it's gonna help you. But I think that it's around Australians just not looking at everything from a pure monetary value and thinking a little bit behind what's behind the person who's making the coffee or running my fitness class.
Absolutely. And I think no Australian wants to walk down the main street of their suburb or their town and it's just Starbucks and McDonald's. Like- 100% not ... I don't wanna see that- No ... ever happen here. But I'll often ... You know, I agree with you. I think if you're looking to [00:31:00] cut corners or save money or you get some money back in your wallet, go to your bank and ask for a better interest rate.
Yeah. Call your telco and get a better deal for your internet or your mobile phone. Big businesses can afford to get you a better deal. Yeah. And then you have another couple of bucks to- Yeah ... continue to buy that coffee every day. And how does small businesses- Feel proud of what they're doing and be confident they can do that.
I think, you know, the risk is that because the term small business is people go, "Oh, I'm a small business, no one's gonna listen to me." Mm. "I'm a small business, I'm not important." Mm. "I'm never gonna get it. I've been used to kind of being almost bottom of the ladder and therefore not getting the service." Mm.
I think how can small businesses believe, you know, "No, I am important." Mm. "And I do have a right." Mm. "And I am gonna make that call." Again, I think- Mm ... part of it's around taking the time, part of it's around understanding your financial situation. But I think the third point is having the confidence and saying, "You know what?
It's important for my business and I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna get a right outcome." Mm. And I think with that resilience and that determination, there's a lot of value on offer for small [00:32:00] businesses if they take the time to shop around and actually take action. 'Cause, you know, p- often people say, even with banking, people want to switch banks, but they think back, switching banks is really hard, so they decide not to.
That's actually not the case. It's really easy. Mm. So sometimes it's taking kind of, it's translating kind of thinking and intent into action, and that can often be a barrier. But do you know what? Give it a go. All these small businesses have come from nowhere. Yeah. So, and they've done an amazing job. You know, have the, they've had the confidence to start the business.
They can set up a small business. You can do anything. Yeah. Okay? And so take the time, believe in yourselves, and ultimately try different things, and you still have choices. If it doesn't work, then you can change again. Yeah, 100%. And I think we've gotta move away from that old mindset that it's too hard to change.
Correct. So just on that, before we wrap up, it's a good point- Yeah ... to finish on. Objectively speaking- Yes ... what would a small business owner look for their... Let's just talk about business banking, not necessarily personal banking. Yeah. Strictly speaking, what are they, what are the basics [00:33:00] of what they're looking for?
If they've got no idea about what good looks like. Yeah. So first of all, I think it's how do they have- The right channel to be able to engage with our banking. Mm-hmm. Now, we at AMP Bank Go are a mobile first channel, as I said earlier, with a kind of great bunch of people on the phone if you need to talk to them.
But making sure that the, the channel which you can engage with your finances is aligned to what you're looking for. Mm-hmm. So most businesses are digitally literate, so making sure there's a really good online banking or mobile app that allows you to understand your money, see your money, track your money.
So I think that's point one. The second one is just fundamentally underlying value. How do you avoid being charged fees for whether they're above the b- above board fees or hidden fees, which are more of a problem. Mm-hmm. And how do you make sure, with any of your hard earn that you do have, how do you make sure you're kind of making that work as hard for you?
Mm. Now, whether that be through interest rates on savings, whether it be through kind of Qantas points on your kind of balances, making sure you're really clear on that. And then the third thing for me is all about service. When things go [00:34:00] wrong, and they will go wrong. Mm-hmm. They will go wrong. Knowing that you can actually communicate and have...
and raise your questions. You're not being funneled into a chatbot that, you know, isn't gonna really help you. How do you know that you're gonna have the empathy to have a genuine conversation with humans to be able to help you out and course correct where you are? So I think they're the three things that we're hearing from businesses.
Mm-hmm. It's around easier understanding your money, it's around the people to talk to if you need to, and it's around real fair value. And I think if you can get that, that's the start. Mm. On top of that, Liz, depending on your business, there's other things you might want. You might want payment terminals, for example.
Yeah. And of course, there are things that are available, but the th- the core hygiene blocks I don't believe change depending on what your business is. Mm. Awesome. Well, I'm really excited to do the next five episodes of this series. Great. We're gonna bring all our listeners the best experts when it comes to money and finance, and help them level up these skills so we can all take our head out of the sand and start to do our business smarter, um, and give small [00:35:00] business owners a better go.
Need to be the topic. Good on you, Liz. Thank you for today. Thanks, John. Thanks for listening to What I Wish I Knew About Small Business Before I Started, a special six-part miniseries brought to you by my Media Magnet Podcast. If this episode helped you, make sure to follow Media Magnet wherever you get your podcasts, and go back to catch the other episodes in this series.
And if you know a small business owner who's learning everything the hard way now, please share this episode with them. It might be exactly what they need. This series is sponsored by AMP Bank Go, supporting Australia's small businesses. I'm Liz Nable, and I'll see you in the next episode
